What People Aren’t Talking About Narcissism | S3 Ep 53

| Narcissists manipulate. Hold boundaries to Conquer Through Love with Avital Miller

“I feel deeply, and I don’t want to change that. So instead of changing myself, I’m going to change the environment of when I feel deeply with boundaries.”

– Avital Miller
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How to Embrace your Queen Energy and Shed the Narcissist's Control with Lady Portia Empath And The Narcissist: Healing Guide from Abuse and PTSD

"Don’t give two shits about what anybody else thinks dance to the beat of your own drum. " – Marcus Hunter NeilLearn how to rid yourself of the toxic narcissist in your life and step up into your own queen power. Today I share a conversation with Marcus Hunter Neil pioneer drag queen Lady Portia Instagram: https://instagram.com/ladypandme (@ladypandme) Marcus is a MindValleys Irish Ambassador, Coach, TedTalker, Podcaster, Pioneer Drag Queen, Ambassador for the NSPCC Here are some key moments: Being with a narcissist is like Grey Gardens pretending to be glitterati while you’re living in a dilapidated house. “ No one sets out to actively be a narcissist and the victim of a narcissist. It just happens.“ It's the narcissists personality. Be your own wing man, defend yourself and take no mistreatment Relationship should be a want not a need No matter how much self work you do if you and the other person are not a fit you are not a fit Know your values know your worth. Because if you don’t have standards then you will shape shift for whomever you’re with. Do not put anybody even royalty on a pedestal because we are all human beings at the end of the day Here’s a test exercise can you list five things that you love about your narcissistic partner? if not then you are stuck in a scenario in the wrong environment and you’re making excuses each day as to why you will not break up with them.  Love yourself radically. Be secure enough in your own skin no matter what happens when you come out on the other side it will all be fine.  https://the-thriving-intuitive.captivate.fm/https-bit-ly-3xjlfvb (Trauma 2 Triumph FREE Ticket) Follow and DM me http://intagram.com/ravencottshow (@ravencottshow )"free gift" to get your FREE Draw Powerful Boundaries Workshop Better Help : https://betterhelp.com/empath (Empath get 10% off your first month) Empath & The Narcissist https://ravenscott.show/empath-and-the-narcissist (Book) : Support the Show Get Human Design Reading:https://ravenscott.show/shop ( SHOP ) Grab coaching sessions and more FREE Gifts on the website http://Ravenscott.show/blog (Ravenscott.show) Madhvi – https://madhvi.ca (Emotion Code FREE Inquiry Call) Music YouTube Library: Til I Let Go by Neffex Mentioned in this episode: Trauma 2 Triumph Summit https://the-thriving-intuitive.captivate.fm/https-bit-ly-3xjlfvb (Trauma 2 Triumph FREE Ticket)
  1. How to Embrace your Queen Energy and Shed the Narcissist's Control with Lady Portia
  2. Emotional Damage and Recovery from Narcissistic Abuse through the Emotion Code
  3. How to Relieve Anxiety from Narcissistic Abuse through your Gut with Camila Smith
  4. Why Empaths Attract Narcissists with Soulmate Coach Jeanne Sullivan Billeci
  5. 16 Self Care Tips for Libra Season – Bonus
Host: Raven Scott
Guest: Avital Miller

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Spiritually heal from childhood trauma, narcissistic abuse with inner child love and astrology.

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Narcissists manipulate. Hold boundaries to Conquer Through Love | S3 Ep 53

Welcomed Raven Scott show, 

and

to the Empath and the Narcissist podcast.

where you regain your sparkle back after narcissist abuse. And as an international author of the Empath And a Narcissist book. And recovery coach and podcast host here and creator of Embracing your black Sheep program.

And course I am aiming to dispel the narcissist power over your soul. And I’m aiming to do this one soul at a time.

I have with me today, Avital Miller best-selling author of the book. Healing Happens and Practice inspires people to experience boundless Energy, absolute happiness, and true success in order to live the best life possible. For over 15 years, Avital has been serving thousands of people worldwide as an award-winning international keynote speaker.

Neuro-linguistic programming practitioner, healing, breakthrough facilitator, and global dancer. Her leadership background includes working as a program manager at Microsoft lead coach for success, resources, America. Sales and marketing director for crystal clarity, publishers, yoga and fitness teacher trainer fitness director, and ordained minister.

Her articles have been published in fitness, professional, online 30 seconds and sacred dance. Skilled journal Avital has been trained as an energy healer and pronic healing and ananda level two healing. She has performed and taught dance internationally since 1993. She’s a graduate of Washington university in St.

Louis, Missouri with a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering and a major in dance she’s known for offering beyond cutting edge wisdom with authenticity and delightful energy and infectious joy. Well welcome. Avital. 

Thank you so much. You said my name beautifully. Um, but I tell people this joke because when I started doing top to text with Siri and I’d asked Siri to write my name, Siri would write all be tall.

So if it helps you remember my name or the intonation of Avi tall, I’ll be tall and I’m really not. But apparently there’s still hope for me. You’re short, but you have hoped to be tall. Yeah. Let’s make our energy bigger. Right? There is hilarious 

too. I’m excited to dive into our conversation today just before we hit record.

Um, she disclosed to me that she has a really great talent of attracting narcissist, just like I do. And all us empaths out there in the world and hearing her bio, you guys, she is intelligent. She, you know, as much as, you know, intelligence as we can have in our head, sometimes our heart might kind of allow us to be open to those who manipulate us.

And I want to just encourage you that you are not dumb. It’s not your fault that if you’ve been caught into the master manipulation of these narcissists, it’s okay. You are in really good company with some really smart people. 

Yeah. And, and really, it means in, in a lot of ways, they’re, in some ways seeking to be healed, somebody who actually can feel what they feel.

And, and that is a compliment to you to say, well, they they’ve chosen you because you have that light because you have that healing abilities because you have that great deep empath abilities where you see beyond the facade that some people may be putting out. 

Yeah. And you see their deep pain. I think that was the biggest thing that kept me staying and trying to help is they, they do kind of showcase sometimes in their lowest point, some real vulnerability, but then they, you know, but then just like they’ve been taught and have they’ve been to survive is they wipe it clear and they, they, they almost lied to themselves.

Like I wasn’t feeling that. I didn’t say that, you know, but we, we see that and we really want to help them heal, but it’s not our job. Right. 

Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that I want to say is, is because I’ve noticed myself re repeatedly attract men that you could say, have some of these narcissistic qualities, the gaslighting, you know, whatever it might be.

And, and it, it, a lot of times you’re going to get the advice. Okay. Just get away from these guys. They’re not going to change. And, and you get the advice, uh, grow in yourself, empower yourself, heal yourself. 

I beat that over the head of my listeners all the time here. Yeah. 

And it was like, okay, well, I got, I went away from them and, and I’m doing all, all of this growth and I’m growing, you know, I’m feeling better.

And I’m like, I keep attracting them. They keep coming back. He went back over and over again. I mean, again, last week I had another one. Um, there actually, this is, this is a common thing that the, the world is working on Ascension right now, by the way. Right. Um, and, and it’s kinda like if you’re trying to put a t-shirt under underwater and you get one side and then the other side pops up, you just say you pushed that side down.

And then the other side pops back up. And it’s, we have to look at, you know, an until we’re really done with something I believe spiritually, it does keep coming back. And so I was really seeking deeper answers to this question of, for what reason does this happen and what else, you know? Well, I’m the common denominator in a certain sense that these things keep showing up.

Um, and I, and it might not be as common in, in among men or among people in life as it looks to me. Um, you know, it might just be that I’ve sort of, you know, attracted that a lot in my circle, but I wanted to get to a deeper root of what is going on here. And, and so those were some of the thoughts that I pulled together to share here, some of the steps that we can follow.

And, and so we mentioned getaway, um, and, and I would say what you want to do is, is position yourself in a place where you can heal and you can grow. Um, so I have also heard of that happening without needing to get away. Um, it does take a great amount of inner strength and support and really taking the right steps.

Um, but so whatever your choices, whether or not you’re going to get away from these people or not, um, we know that you’re working on yourself growth and what you want to do is not just heal from the feeling of trauma, but also create greater understanding to what specifically is the trauma that you’re personally healing with.

But also more deeply, what I want to say is get to know yourself, learn. Learn your truth. Um, trust the feelings that you’re feeling inside, trust your intuitions. Right? Part, part of what’s happening here is, is there’s partially a desire of a narcissistic person who want to make change, which is why they call you in, but also a fear of, of them not wanting to make change.

And, and so in a way, they’re trying to trick you out of perceiving what you perceive so that then they can stay where they are and not need to make that change for that side of them. It doesn’t want to, so you need to not get tricked into not trusting what you feel and what you know inside. Um, so you need to gain that confidence again, to know your truth.

Yeah. And then, and yeah, and then the next thing is knowing how to communicate in the moment. Where these things are coming up. And I know I heard some tips along the way of how to communicate in certain situations. And then I, you know, I just figured some of them out on my own as I wanted to share three scenarios here.

Um, but, but I was kind of wondering like, well, I heard this tip. I’m like, that’s great, but am I going to be able to actually do it? 

Yeah. It’s hard when you’re in the heat of the moment, your emotions. And for me, I always felt like my brain was turned upside down and everything was invalidated that I would say I would try and have an intelligent conversation about what he did, what I needed.

And then it just got just the narrative just flipped against. And I was sold. I mean, it took him an hour to convince me, but eventually he did and you’re right. It’s like knowing your truth. And for me personally, discovering the human design system, like that’s how my brain operates now. I’m always thinking like where in my chart is this.

Where in other people’s tries is happening. It really is your open centers because that’s where you’re amplifying things. So their agenda, if you have the open will center their ideas, if you have the open head center, the conceptualizing of like, this is how life works. If you have the open Asana and I don’t have those open, but yet again, still, he was able to like manipulate his will and agenda on me.

Cause I have the open, open solar plexus. You feel really anxious. Like you’re walking on eggshells all the time and you want to make them happy and please them so that everyone’s at peace. So you can relieve yourself of this pressure. And so all those elements, really, if you have an open spleen is like, you always, you kind of do attract some bad people sometimes.

Cause you’re trying to. Like, uh, satisfy the need to feel comfortable or happy. And the narcissists do that. They love bomb you at the beginning. And they trick you into thinking that that you’re you’re secure. And you’re you’re with someone who really loves them. But if they don’t know how to healthily love themselves, they don’t, they’ve never learned the healthy attachment bond.

Then that’s just, that’s just how they know to love. They just know to love bomb you. And then, then. Ego, like you said on all the things they’re wanting to fix comes out, but then it’s like, oh, but I really don’t want to fix some. I just like want to kind of fix them like on the outside, but I really don’t inside.

Like I’m scared, right? 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love this and I love that you bring in the human design. And I think a lot of human design practitioners have been really fascinated by my chart because I have so much filled in. Right. Which, which means that, that I am supposed to hold the presence of who I am in so many areas.

I mean, I have, there’s only one of the energy centers that’s open. It’s the root, um, yeah, the very bottom. And that’s just about, you know, like for me, it’s like scurrying, the only thing I need to do this, when you do this, or you do that, um, Uh, you know, w which is like the most traumatic, uh, you know, I think like, um, you know, sort of energy center that could be open.

Um, but a lot of the pathways between the energy centers are filled and they think that also can create a greater sense of competition to that masculine energy who wants to be like the confident, knowing driven one. And here’s this person, this deeply feminine person coming into their presence, who’s also deeply defined, which means it’s even harder to, you know, it creates more competition like, oh, there’s even more to, to combat like that can automatically, um, emasculate somebody who’s not as confident in who they are in their knowing.

It’s because they have the insecurity. That’s interesting that you say that they have the insecurity, like you said, we always talking about like, the narcissist is, uh, attracted to the, the model. You know, like the moth, the flame, the empath has a lot of light within them. And especially, it sounds like you, you have a lot of definition.

So you’re really strong. Like you have a really strong fire, so they, they are probably attracted to that. But strength, like you said, at the beginning, hoping subconsciously like their soul wants to, all of our souls are here to evolve and grow. Their soul wants to grow, but their ego is so strong and it’s like, Nope, Nope.

I’m digging my heels in. I am going to be this stubborn, you know, healthy way. 

Yeah. Yeah. But it, but then imagine the power of like actually being able to pull me off my son or off my confidence, such a defined person, and to have had that, that happened. And, and so again, this is what I’m talking about.

Like going back to your truth and maintain that no matter what is happening with the outside environment. Um, but here’s, here’s three, three things, you know, that you can explore practice. Try-on when certain situations, uh, you know, come up and, um, One of them is, and I, and I’m just gonna speak from like what happened recently, right.

Where I was like, oh my God, like I did it. I did those communication things, but it’s because I spent so much time on my internal growth, um, that now I’m able to see, like I was successful. And maybe that, that person only came in for that reason to show me like how much I’ve grown, because I do, I do believe that also these things show up like for us and in a way.

For our own growth to show us what else are we really wanting to work on here in this life to learn and grow and to create our own Ascension. Um, and so I look at them also as gift to propel my essential, not that they’re just a small trying to take from my light. Um, but it’s like, how do I react to a moth trying to take from my light?

Right. So the first thing is, you know, he’s like, um, you’re not being open. Would you be more open with me? I don’t mean specifically. You wanted me to be open sexually after the first date. Um, that’s 

always a theme with them. 

So I was like, well, instead of like demanding, um, you know, that I be more open, um, why don’t you just try to find out what else you could do that, that could help me be more of a.

Um, so it’s not turning it around. It’s not necessarily making them defensive, but it’s also because I stated that with confidence that I knew that it was perfectly reasonable for me to be as open as I was in that. And I knew what I needed to get me there. So I’ve done lots of relationship trainings and programs as well.

Right. And I reflect that back through my, how to love and be loved programs. Um, but, but so I, I already had that sense of knowing, knowing like what else he could do. So I knew the answer, you know, as soon as he’s like, oh, why don’t I ask you that, um, that sounds fun. I’m like, let’s go into an exploration.

So it also made it fun. It didn’t have to be this thing that was dragging me down and creating the argument. Um, but you know, one of his arguments is like, well, you know, let’s go for this. Like, why not be so open? We have all these things in common. Like, and, and I mean, we did, I’ve never met anyone who I had like that much in common with, or could like, but, you know, open up that verbally.

So it was completely accurate. And there were certain things that I knew I wanted before it was going to open. And, and so he’s like, you know, like just in a way, trying to make me think, like there’s something wrong with me that I’m not being that open yet. So I just sat back, you know, I think it’s perfectly reasonable that I’m not open to sex at the end of our first 

date.

It was perfectly reasonable and should be advice to everyone, every woman, like, what is it that was that old phrase that we used to roll our eyes at? What was more like living with them, but like, don’t give away the cow or something about the milk Macau. Right. Don’t get rid of the milk for free or something like that.

Yeah. 

Yeah. And it wasn’t, you know, do I need to give the milk away for free, but, um, and actually I 

like 

is the first date, like how about get to know me a little bit more emotionally? Yeah, one. 

And I’ll actually, so I’ll say this too. I mean, and this is a very clear form of protection that I had to learn.

Um, but because I get so connected so quickly and I care so much about being in relationship that I also can very easily get caught up on a Whirlpool, that I can feel somebody else’s emotions and what’s, you know, off about them. Um, and that I feel very sad. When it disconnects after I’ve connected that deeply.

So I’d also made the decision that either I need to leave the space in my life to overcome all of that, that might come up or I’m just going to go more slowly into something. Tell I’ve seen that yes, this person is really invested, really interested, um, in the right space. Um, you know, emotionally with their maturity, right.

I don’t have to go on those roller coasters anymore. Um, and, and so I’d want it to take that time. And so part of it, yes, was in protection of knowing myself and it’s like, well, I don’t think I can change that. I feel deeply, and I don’t want to change that about me. So instead I’m going to create the environment where the timing feels better of when I’m going to feel deeply.

Um, and there’s something about. Th this idea of, you know, the masculine, the feminine too, and all of us have different amounts of masculine and feminine, whether man or women, you know, you just want to put that out there and acknowledgement the world is shifting more and more in that way, in that understanding.

Um, and, and what I will say is that for this conversation is a little more related to when a female is being more feminine and a male is being more masculine. Um, and so some of the wording I choose might say that, but know that it, it’s not necessarily tied to the sex even, you know, even if I say vocalize it that way.

Um, but it is just a 

common sense. Yeah, they’re the same, same, you know, sex partnerships where one is going to tend to have the more masculine energy and the other. That’s more of the feminine energy. Yeah. Yeah. 

And even, even a man and woman relationship where it’s a little, it’s a little more foot flat and that actually is fine for them.

It’s not the narcissist empath. 

And apparently I have a lot more yang and he has a lot more yen. Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah. Feels right inside of you, you know, you’ve got it, but it’s kind of like, uh, I think of like a white picket fence, um, you know, around from the, the all American, you know, home and, and, and there’s a garden inside, you know, there’s a beautiful, beautiful garden inside.

You’re like, well, what, what kind of fence do I need to build? Um, around the garden? So the garden is protected and nurtured. And then once I let them know what the fence is, if they know how to handle it and nurture the garden, you can open the door and walk in. Um, and so what I also just did was just explained to him, like, here’s the type of support that I need, you know?

And, and it’s like, okay, yeah, I can do that. You know, that I, I took the risk and I said, all right, like if you think you can handle it, you think you can nurture the garden in the way that I want, you know, then come on in and we’ll, and we’ll try that. Um, but he didn’t. Okay. Goodbye. No, no, no. Um, and I probably, you know, could have taken even more time to say, let, let him prove that.

Not just say, oh yeah, I can do that. Right. Um, 

that’s nothing, that’s a trick. I would say to kind of understand if you’re dealing with a healthy, emotionally connected partner versus that narcissist is they will absolutely say, and they will probably do it for the first couple of times as to what you want, but then they slip back into their pattern.

They they’re not conscious anymore. They don’t really know how to do it or don’t want to do it. And so yeah, that’s when they start to show the signs that they’re not going to nurture you emotionally, as you need. 

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now it’s the third thing was, so you say like, yeah, I think this is pretty reasonable and they might want to continue to argue that.

Yeah. Right. I also noticed that happen. So I just sat and listened with. But here’s the thing is watch them. They’re going to start talking down and talking to themselves. Hmm. Because when you’re confident that this is reasonable, there’s nothing they can say. And whatever their attempts of manipulation are to change that, which, which means they can’t even keep telling you.

So I just sat there, sending love to them saying, Hmm, there’s probably just some pain inside this person. Um, that’s making them. Really hear me or be okay with where I am and who I am. And, and that they’re trying to convince me to feel or be something that I not, but notice the difference. I became strong enough in myself that I didn’t have to be like, oh my God, I need to protect myself from the trying to change or, oh, I’m changing my viewpoint.

Um, but, but it’s just, okay, I’ll send them love yesterday. Something going on for them that they’re acting this way. That’s 

so key. I think the love and confidence, like you said, like knowing your truth, holding to your truth and not bending like, oh, Hey, makes a good point. You know, it’s like, no, there’s no good point.

This is it. If you truly want a relationship with me, this is my picket fence. This is my healthy boundary. And you, I think the energy you exuded. He felt it, he knew it, you had it within you. And so he was like, well, I can’t really talk very strongly about it to her. So he started to be like, I need to say it, I need to fight it.

Um, but I guess I’ll talk down to my lap because we entered, like he couldn’t match your energy. Yeah. Just 

into trails out trails out. And I really listened. I mean, you know, to like, yeah. You know, I mean, that, that makes sense. But no, it’s not my truth. Yeah. Like, yeah, that, that can be true. I see how you’re saying what you’re saying.

That’s not my truth. 

Um, this is so applicable to every conversation to people on the opposite side of the aisle, by the way, if you have family members or anything like that. Yeah. Especially when it comes to, I think it’s difficult, totally off topic. Not about dating, but it’s difficult when you have narcissistic family members and then you have children and you have to interact with them.

It’s like, do I interact with them? Do I not? Do I keep them out of their lives? And when. You know, it’s like, you have to be strong. Like you said, you have to be strong with, oh, that’s interesting point, but that’s not our truth. That’s not what we do in our household. That’s not what we believe. You know, we don’t force things upon people.

We ha we high five or all these little tiny things about consent and beliefs and judgments. I love that now holding space lovingly, like that’s I can see that, but that’s not my truth. 

Yeah. Yeah. So all that package together is when you’ve done that self work. Um, and then what are examples of how you can communicate and, and stay in the presence and, and shift energy around.

This is really, really important for the Ascension of the world and our own self. For us to develop that strength and to hold our truth and to reflect that back. And you don’t have to say it with words because often when you say it with words, that’s arguable, it creates a space to argue with silence is a huge power.

There was a, a gentleman and I, I don’t want to say a lot of details cause it just, it sounds traumatic. Um, but that I had, you know, an experience with and I had decided, and the police even suggested filing, um, like, uh, you know, um, what is it call, but where they, they can’t come anywhere near you, a restraining order, restraining order.

And, um, but there’s all this process that you have to go through to get there. And I’m like, you know, I have a feeling that if I just kind of block him on, on social media and, and my phone and, um, I’m not going to have any problems and I don’t need to stay in the problem. I going through all these levels of court proceedings and dragging, dragging it out and bringing it more public.

Um, and, and also that I’m just gonna walk away, you know, that I’m gonna hold truth, that this was not right. Um, but I’m going to step away from this person. And I didn’t know until I think a few months ago how powerful the silence was. Uh, cause as, as people are coming back to getting together in person after the pandemic, I got approached by this gal who I’d never met before.

And, and she said, I want to talk to you about this. And, um, I want to create a campaign to not allow him in our community. And I said, listen, I’m not in any campaigns. If it helps support you, we can chat for a little bit once. And that’s it. Um, and I found out that he’d been walking around telling people I ruined his life.

Um, and my thought was now I, oh my God, like she’s blaming me or making me look bad. I was like, oh, how powerful my silence was. And my inner strength was that I am the person he chose. He can’t forget that he keeps wanting to blame or tear down and it hasn’t worked. 

Yeah. That is the girls tonight to not get that attention.

And the drama, the silence is so powerful. 

Yeah. Yeah. Um, but then next step is to notice when. Our agitation show up. Um, and I think it’s so funny because here I am going through this experience with this gentleman. And I was like, oh, I handled that. I did so well, it’s just, it was so easy for me to re navigate.

Like, I don’t care, like, you know how somebody acts anymore, like, I’ve, I’ve got this. And then, and then he ends things with a text message after all of this time of most open conversation and me explaining that a very sensitive, so to text me in the middle of my Workday, you know, when I’m not gonna have an easy time responding, but here’s the thing I was like, ah, well, so the, all that didn’t work to throw me off center, but that did to end things.

Hmm. So here’s the thing I had, you know, emotional reaction. Um, and I could say, well, I’ll step away from him. You know, he hurt me, I’ll go do some healing and you know, they’ll go nourish myself. That’s not.

I wanted to understand specifically, what is the reason for the pain that I’m feeling and then how do I heal that specific aspect of pain? And I love it because I’m a neuro-linguistic programming practitioner, so I can work on these things in a few minutes. Um, uh, but it’s, it’s, it, it comes to, to light and it was bringing the light.

It was creating a greater depth of understanding. And I’ll say what I learned in case, um, anybody else has, would have the same answers, you know? Cause I think a lot of us model each other anyways. Um, but one of the things is. I love being in relationship. I love the feeling of being in connection with somebody.

And I feel like I’m more meant to be in connection than be alone. And so when he’s ending things, you know, then it’s like, oh, and I can’t be in, you know, connection. And, and it was, I was putting a lot of weight on like him having some control over, over my life in the sense that, because he ended it, he took that away from me.

Um, oh, there are other fish in the sea, so 

you didn’t get to like end it. That that was out of your control. Yeah. It was kind of like a relationship is big and the control aspect element for you. Yeah. Yeah. 

Well, and that’s come back to that control. Find a moment. Um, cause that’s like in a actually I’ll write it down.

So I remember. Cause that’s related and I’ve, I’ve actually already been hinting at it, but that’s related to the third point. Um, so okay. I meant to be in relationship. Um, and I created this interpretation that when a relationship ends that you’re, you can’t really have the same type of love exchange. Um, and, and you need to stop sending them love.

And I’m like, that’s not me. I love being in a space of sharing love now. Okay. They might stop sending me as much love. They might not receive my love. I can’t control that aspect. I can control how I feel and I meant to be sending love. So I’m not going to stop. And, and it really beautiful that I made that decision that I’m going to be how I feel.

And unless he sets a boundary saying, don’t do that. Um, then I’m going to keep being free to acting how I personally feel inspired despite. You know, the relationship ending necessarily. So all you said is, you know, we, we shouldn’t date, but there’s no definite more definitions or boundaries that he created.

But because I did that when we’ve run into each other, since then, it’s been a very loving exchange of very like emotionally, you know, like deeply connected exchange because I stayed in the place of love and that sweeps him up into it now. Right. Um, and I just felt better. Uh, so it’s, uh, a beautiful place to be in.

Um, you know, in that respect is, uh, just continue to be you, no matter what these boundaries you can 

say and its approach to a breakup too, no matter toxic, not toxic just is like still sending the. Love as another soul, as another human, whether you’re dating or not. When you, when you see them, there’s no animosity like, oh, he took away my ability to love somebody or the relationship or whatever it is.

I mean, subconsciously like he broke up with me instead of, I broke up with him. The ego starts to play into that, to just see them as they’re on a different path than yours. And you met for a certain thing, like you said, that Nino fire with the coal, like forming your diamond as you’re evolving as a soul.

And it’s a beautiful thing. And you can still love him for being there for that moment. Kind of testing your abilities and going, oh yeah, I got this, I got this. I’m really doing good here. And him knowing, okay, like we shouldn’t be dating. Like that’s, that’s huge. And then, yeah, I’ve heard so many more people could do that with their actual.

There would be so much less hate and drama and heartache and pain, especially when there’s children involved. And that would really elevate the collective. Right. That would be a whole new. 

Yeah. I mean, I just strongly feel like we’re in this player, in this game for us to have the experiences learning the growth that we came here to have.

Um, and, and the quicker we can snap into, well, what am I getting out of this versus what am I losing? Um, the, you know, what, what, what pain am I feeling versus? How am I going to grow from this pain? What awareness is this pain giving me? So inside of me is a fear. You know, that I’m just going to be single and not have a relationship again, but what’s the wisdom behind that?

How much I love being in partnership and companionship. Well, where, where do I have? I have wonderful friends, wonderful family in my life. I don’t have nothing. And I have, I have me, um, another message and this is common and important. I feel for a lot of impasse in the situation, the other message, the fear, what message that came out of that was I am not lovable.

Yeah, that was so my interpretation of him and ending things, I am not lovable. Um, and if you stayed with me, then I’d keep thinking that he’s giving me proof that I’m lovable, but where does that proof need to come from? Not from an action that somebody else was doing, but from my belief with them, again, going back to knowing that.

Yep. So there’s that specific message to address, um, and underlying behind this, I want to add this point in, especially with the last thing we were mentioning, it was listening to Abraham pics, right? As part of like searching for the answers, but it’s um, this guy was saying, you know, the ups and the downs, they’re in relationship.

They’re not they’re in it. They’re not. And she’s like, yeah, you need to maintain the same state of mind. No matter what the circumstance is, Parma Honsa, yoga, Nanda, the yoga group. He said, circumstances are neutral. It’s one of my favorite quotes. This is like an onion, like peeling away, layers and peeling away layers.

So. When, when I was just in that moment of dating him and it felt so aligned to think of being with him and, and, you know, going forward in life and what life could be like, um, and having a partner and that ending it and just feeling like all of that is taken away. But no, it’s not the alignment with having a great partner and what life can be like with a partner can stay the feeling, um, that that is meant for me.

And I can be in that state. So I went on a. Date with somebody a few days ago, who who’s really not a great match for me. Um, but I went into the date saying I’m going to feel in alignment in myself that I am meant to be with my loved one. Um, and we had a phenomenal date and I, I am going to say I’m going to attribute it a lot to myself because if I directly responded to what he was bringing to the table, it would have been a horrible date.

Um, cause it wasn’t for me, 

that’s a nice way of putting it. So, and 

it’s true. You 

hear reality, you create your experience. Right. 

And I made it more fun for him because I stayed in a state of being in alignment with how I want to be. 

Yeah. And out of the experience, even though it wasn’t fulfilled with your, um, your boyfriend, uh, previously when you were talking.

And you were say you felt the connection, you, you saw that partnership. That is a form of the vision of the manifestation of the partner who is going to fulfill the feelings you had. And that partner was not the right one to fulfill those, but you had them in your head, you were dreaming and visioning and you felt it.

That is the process of manifestation. And a lot of us get so stuck on like holding on so tight that that person has to be the one to fulfill it. But it’s not, they’re just there as a filler. Like this is what could possibly be. However, in reality, this person can’t fulfill it. So by the way, little butterfly 

returns to me as a different.

Yes. Yes. Well, and that person could return again in a different form as well. Um, but they’d have to be in a different form for it to really go somewhere. But I feel that they came in that form because I had like a little, you know, extra notch of my wing to grow. And they were that missing puzzle piece to let me know, like, here’s the other notch of your wing to grow.

So that you’re really with another butterfly like butterflies or like one of my top animals that I relate to. So I love the, um, you know, the analogy there and, and I w I’ve been hinting at this and I want to make sure that it sort of gets stressed as another key point, um, to put in there, because I think a lot of times we also look at what you could say, our more of our 3d understandings of relationship.

And here I am going into this and I’m seeing. Oh, these things, you know, even with the last guy, um, that I, you know, I’ve been sharing a lot about of, of where alignment is, but also seeing where there’s not the alignment. And, and it’s looking at like, what are the things that I decided I want in this material life in order to make alignment in order to achieve and live the way I want to in this 3d world.

Um, but there’s another. Layer of our spiritual Ascension. And I do also believe that this person and some of my other narcissistic, you know, guys who were exhibiting some sort of narcissistic quality, um, when, when we come together and there’s a deep connection from the beginning, because potentially we actually develop that in past lives and it might’ve been completely harmonious.

In a past life and our task for this life is to create Ascension, um, between having that dichotomy of empath versus narcissist. And this is so common right now. There’s just so pocked about, because this is a common theme in many people’s lives. But what this also is, so I actually believe that narcissism is extreme feminism.

And so when it shows up in a male, it just seems so off. Um, because they’re like acting in this extreme feminine way, actually, even though we think it’s, it’s old masculine, but it’s actually feminism, but we’ve been going through. Patterning of redistributing what is masculine and feminine. And of course we’re doing it in two different ways in the world, right.

We’re doing one side, which I’m not really going to address here. Um, which is in a way, understanding, uh, how we all embody both masculine and feminine, right? And that that’s the class of people that are saying, Hey, let’s have different definitions of the heat, him, you, they, um, you know, so that’s one, one side of a story of our evolution that’s happening.

And the other side, which I feel we’re addressing a little bit more here is, um, well, okay. So there used to be this model where, um, men wanted a certain sense of control and that, and that gave them the stability. And so women were putting. And so there was an understanding of here’s a masculine and here’s what feminine is.

And then women say, well, we deserve to be equal. Um, but we didn’t have a role model of how to be equal. So the first step was we just acted like men and that works for some of the women who have a lot more of the masculine, right. That are sending in, in, um, sort of in this pool here, but that doesn’t work for the women who want equality, who still also feel a great sense of, of the feminine, uh, you know, definition of nature.

Um, so we talked about Ian yang, right? It’s another term to use that or give a receiver or whatever it might be. Um, so, so what we’ve been doing is like, oh, okay, well, great. We kind of did that a little bit wrong are going about this a quality thing. And I’ve just been seeing so many women step into, well, how do I do this as well?

And, and now as, as polarity and as balance goes, the men, the masculine has to re rebalance in, respond to that. And, and so what’s happening is it used to be like, well, I just control the situation. You know, there’s my stable point. I know who I am. I know what I’m doing in the world. Like we got this and now the woman’s holding strong in her feminine, divine nature.

It’s they know that doesn’t feel good. It feel good. Nope. It doesn’t feel good. Can’t change. Can’t change my mind still doesn’t feel good. And they’re going, oh my God, like, let me see if I could convince her harder that I can be this way, but it’s fine because I don’t know what, what to do. Like I don’t know how to handle going in this other direction.

Uh, so I’ve started the question of when I talk to men who seem open to. What is masculinity to you today? Uh, and that’s an interesting question. I feel that I could put out there to say, start asking people and help men step into what’s the new divine masculine, where we don’t have to guess, like we don’t, they don’t have to control.

They can still be leaders in their own way. We’re going to be leaders in our own way with the gifts that we have and whatever our balance of the masculine and the feminine is. Um, A lot of times, I think we thought that, you know, so here’s our empath and here’s our narcissist. Right. And we’re the light and they’re the moth and they just want to suck off of that light and they’re going to pull us down in a way.

And, and so I was starting to think, well, what if actually it’s an essential for both of us. So it might seem like we’re giving more to them, but how much have we really spent looking at how are we learning from this experience? Oh, and here’s actually a really good one that I did recently. And it’s you, you only do this one.

It’s going to feel good. Okay. Um, and so I think I’ve built up enough confidence to be able to have this level of honesty, because a lot of times we also, what agitates us, um, that somebody else’s acting is actually what we do in ourselves or something we need to work on in ourselves. So I sort of asked the question too, is, um, how narcissist am I.

What are some of those things? Okay. Well, I really want to peer publicly, like, I’m great. Like I’m perfect. Uh, like I’ve got all this handled, um, right there. Well, that’s kind of a narcissistic quality. So why don’t I just work on that in myself? Cause I, I had spent at first when I was studying this too, and I thought, well, my next leg up is let me understand them, you know, and be more compassionate, actually.

You don’t really, um, I mean, yes, if you’re continuing a partnership with somebody, you do want to understand them. Um, but what’s more important is to understand yourself and, and so you don’t need to look at them and say, well, why are they narcissistic? What you want to do is say, well, why does it agitate you?

That they’re being narcissistic? That to me is a greater sense of freedom and the thing that we can control. Yeah. Yeah. 

That’s so spot on and I love that concept. I don’t think a lot of people are talking about, because it’s always like, it’s just like right now, this, you know, one side of the aisle, the other side of the aisle, it’s very tribal.

All of the things, the narcissist and the impact is very tribal, but in my healing, I can want a hundred percent admit that I had a lot of narcissistic traits too. And so it’s almost like we were like two narcissists trying to get our way. And I was the empath that just kind of felt like I was getting sucked down in the vortex because I was going down his agenda and his this.

But when I pulled myself out and I met my husband, now, there were a lot of times where I’m so grateful for him. He was like, you’re being really arrogant right now. Like, and I was just being, acting out of unconscious behavior, you know, things that get that I D I just part of me and then also passed down from generation generation.

So I love that concept of going, what really aggravates you, and then are you doing. Subconsciously to others and justifying it like, oh, well, I’m just doing it out of love, or this is just who I am. And you just need to accept me for who I am. 

And this is, um, I said, Byron Katie, um, where, where she takes you through series of questions, the one there’s like a scientific belief or the word.

Yes, exactly. Um, so the, the work is a really good process to go through for that question specifically, when you notice an agitation in you, you know, the complaint, um, and then you turn the words around, you know, he’s being narcissist. I’m being narcissistic, right? Oh, 

so well does it? No, it doesn’t. But otherwise you will just continue in your loving anger towards the other and that blame and the finger pointing.

And then no one will ascend, no one will evolve and we’re like, dang it. We got to die and come back and try this all over again. Yeah, yeah, 

yeah. And this is where you place yourself, where you feel empowered and not like you had been the victim, you know, and that’s going to be different probably for everyone and all of us at different stages.

Um, w how can you speak, how can you communicate? What words are you going to choose that create empowerment within you, 

within you? And to be quite honest, is where can you take responsibility in that relationship? Because every relationship there’s conflict and it’s a two way. Um, you know, did you stay too long?

Did you lie to yourself? Did you justify it? There’s things that you did that you’d can take responsibility for and it’s not all the abusers fault. Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard. It’s really hard. 

I mean maybe where do we hold abuse? Um, here’s a, here’s a really fun one to try on. And this is I’m John Wineland. I like to give credit to all these other teachers, and I’m saying these names on purpose, because I feel like these are also other great names, um, you know, for people to check out their work.

Um, so John Weiland teaches a lot about like feminine, masculine polarity, and, uh, it’s a little bit of like tantric methods also in a way, um, you know, to get in there. And, um, you know, swim is sort of complaining. Like guys are just not meeting what she wants and he just said, well, what if you had the thought in your head that every guy has the potential.

Every guy has the potential to truly step up to the plate to truly be great, man. Um, and I think this is hard because we see with, with narcissism quite a lot of repetition. Um, but one of the things that will challenge them even more is that you’ve lost faith in their potential to be better and what they’re doing.

And that doesn’t mean that you still need to stay while they’re learning. Um, so you still place yourself where you want to be right 

now. And actually they won’t learn while you’re there. Cause they’re comfortable. You, you have to distance yourself. You have to give an ultimatum or a huge hard boundary for them to like put a fire under their butt to work on.

Yeah. You know, even like I was saying, like whole holding that belief within you, you know, while you’re in conversation that they can’t go there anymore, they can’t go to that old argument. Cause it’s just not working on you. Um, and they’re, they’re either, you know, if they’re done with that argument, they’ll say they’re with you and step up, right.

If they’re not quite done with the argument, they’ll go find somebody else that they can have that, um, you know, that, that control over, um, it’s, uh, don’t feel bad. Also. Narcissist leaves you. It means you’re actually like too, too strong, you know, for where they want to be you or manipulate, 

manipulate huge.

Right now you feel it malleable. You’re right. Yeah. That’s huge. It’s don’t feel bad. I’ve ha I see so many things out. They just, people are so heartbroken. And why do narcissists move on so quickly? It’s like, because you are strong enough, you. Do their drama. They can’t fight with you anymore. So they’re just moving on to the next person.

They can like, don’t feel bad, feel proud. 

Yeah. Yeah. But it’s how are you both going to feel better inside? It’s if you still hold that belief. Yeah, he has the capability. He may not have shown me yet, but it’s there it’s within everyone. Yeah. Don’t believe I know 

they might not achieve it within this lifetime to just give you that.

Sometimes it’s not this lifetime for them. Sometimes it is. 

Yeah. I have this silly thing to where it’s it’s um, some of us also come in just to play certain roles, to help trigger things for some people. And so I also imagined sometimes like the, the narcissist, um, they’re really only doing it for. Um, holding that role so that we can have the growth that we’re having.

And, um, and they die on our, since they don’t get the growth at all, because there was more of us that needed that experience. Um, so there was a purpose in them, never changing. 

I like that concept because 

I think one of the agitations we sit in is like, why are they torturing themselves? Like, why aren’t they change?

Like they can be better. Well, maybe there’s a purpose for them to stay that way. And that also helps you just walk away, let them be focused on yourself because we don’t really truly know why everyone is the way that they are. And if there’s a divine purpose behind it or not. Yeah. 

That’s so true. Yeah. So beautiful.

Do you want to touch on the thing about the country? 

Yeah, well, and that really, it came with the, um, the Ascension, uh, concept. Um, but, but there is, uh, that, that player, you know, right now where, where that old masculine used to have a certain perception of how they were going to have control. Um, and then, and then we’re, we’re coming in and we’re like, yeah, no, that doesn’t work for us.

Um, and, and so they’re going to try harder to see where I can still maintain that control. So it it’s, um, it just scary. It’s so scary when if you think about, well, you know, I’ve, I’ve had solid ground underneath me, I think about the, uh, condo or apartment complex that collapsed in Florida. Um, um, well, they thought they had solid ground underneath.

For a long time. Right. But actually they were on sand. Um, it really was never solid. And the structure wasn’t built well enough either to sustain the movement of the sand. So everything collapsed. Um, and, and, but you could imagine that if somebody like knows it’s going to collapse and you just have a team of people surrounding the building being like, I’m going to hold it up.

Yeah. You’re there now. Yeah. Yeah. You’re saying I’m going to hold it up. You went silent. I don’t know what happened. I might, I might’ve just gotten too loud for my mind, probably since have, you know,

we’re saying I’m going to hold it up. Yeah. Yeah. I got to hold 

it up. It’s going to crumble. It’s going to crumble. So I say this to whoever is trying to, and we do this as women to, um, you know, in, in other ways, like trying to control, always getting fed, love him. It’s not happening. We have to find that force somewhere else.

And that understanding somewhere else too. Um, but yeah, take the risk. Um, just start exploring another way. So it’s kind of like if you’re changing your, you want to change your. But you really don’t want to give up certain things, then you just add green smoothies into your diet. Um, and you don’t have to give anything else up.

So you just add something else healthier in there. So if that’s an easier way, it also, uh, I get this example of this. Um, Mandy started meditating and he was an alcoholic. So he’s holding his alcohol and one hit and miss meditation beads and the other hand. And eventually he drops the alcoholic and he’s still holding onto the meditation beads.

Um, so really just look at, if you’re feeling dissonance, you don’t even have to understand what it means, what it’s about. Um, but if your feelings dissonance inside of you, um, then explore something that’s truly uplifting, not something that keeps you in avoidance. Um, you know, that that’s fun and sort of, uh, you think you’re up with it because you did something fun.

Um, but something that, that true. Uh, bless you from inside. So it’s typically going to be, um, you know, the meditation, uh, therapy, neuro-linguistic programming, like any form of personal development, spending time in nature, um, yoga, restorative, yoga, um, you know, relaxation, not necessarily like an emptiness, but, um, but then sitting still with you with you.

Yeah. And I would say also, would you add in their shadow work? Yeah. Like the tough stuff, you know, sitting with the uncomfortable feelings rather than numbing them. 

Yes. And what, um, When are we ready? And how do we address the shadow? Cause if you could do that right from the start and you don’t know how to handle the pain and you don’t have the tools to shift the, the shadow around.

Um, so start with what brings light in, um, and then go seek the support of somebody who knows how to help you address that shadow. Right? So that’s really the work that I do, whether it’s, I mentioned the how to love and be loved program that I have my students succeed program. And some of these are online too.

So I love that because anyone can join from anywhere. Um, Uh, but, uh, but it creates space for you to fill up with light and strength, um, so that you can handle the shadow and then you get the tools, uh, hold on. How am I going to say hello, shadow. Like, I see that you’re there. How do I stop feeling pain?

That your presence, what are you trying to say to me? How do I shift this? So you go by, by yeah. 

That’s important because otherwise they just see the shadow and they go and numb out and they’re like, Nope, peace out. Not doing this. Yeah. You have to have hold cell for yourself. Yeah, no, seriously. 

The shadow like Adam, I’m going to sit at your dinner table until you address that I’m here.

It’s like that family member, you’d rather not have be part of your family, but they are.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I think that’s so important. And I think the culture of overly. The toxic positivity is like you said that the beginning stages. So don’t always hang out in the beginning stages of, you know, the light and love is okay, you’re feeling good. You’re getting the light and love. You’re feeling secure in yourself and grounded.

Okay. Now, now you get to address the shadow and now you get to do some of the hard work, because without that pressure, like I was saying earlier without that like hard stuff and the hard struggles, a diamond is not formed, right. You’re not plant, you know, the layers of the onion aren’t peeled off and you’re not really going to shine your unique brightness out into the world until you do the difficult work.

Yeah. When I want to, um, I want to say one thing, which is also somewhere I, a direction that I feel we can move into. Um, he remember the phrase, no pain, no gain. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, ask this question. What if we can have gained without pain?

Is a way, and maybe it’s just our perception of what’s happening that needs to change. So it feels less painful in the process. So it becomes this wonderful, adventurous exploration, you know, and I won’t say that I’m perfectly there. I would say that, um, I experienced less pain or that I pass through pain more quickly, um, that it goes more into that positive state, but yes, I’m still experiencing pain.

Um, but I do believe that there’s more opportunities for growth without as much pain. There’s more ease, there’s more grace. And I think as you get more experienced as well, it just on a practical level of, of how to work through what is coming up like I have, then it becomes much easier, faster and more graceful in the process.

Enjoy this life. 

I agree. Yeah. And approach the things that you need to work on with curiosity. Yeah. And I think you could, I think you could achieve. Growth without intense pain. If you’re approaching it, like you said, the mindset is curiosity, gorgeous. This has been such an amazing conversation. I know it’s benefited so many who watched and listened.

Thank you for being here every time. 

Thank you so much. I just really appreciate how open you’ve been in this conversation and how wise you are and how sweet you are. I’m excited for everyone to get the gifts, um, you know, from this podcast as well as all of your other episodes. Thank 

you. Thank you. And where do you like to hang out most on social media or where can people find.

I tend to be on Facebook the most. Um, I will say these capsule where I couldn’t keep up with it. Um, so follow me, um, you know, write things and then as I kind of, I’ll definitely be responding. Um, but you can email me info, ABI Tom miller.com. And if you go to avital miller.com, especially the calendar, um, that’ll start pointing you like to the sit and succeed program that had 11 be loved program.

Those each have their own URLs. Like when you go to sit and succeed.com how to be loved.com, you’ll also find all those programs. 

Perfect. Amazing. Thank you so much. And everyone remember keep your unique light shining. 

If you enjoyed this podcast, continue to come back. And I enjoy to see any feedback that you have. 

And. 

take a screenshot of this podcast. 

share it onto your social media stories 

Tag me at Raven Scott show. Thank you so much. Can’t wait to connect with you. 

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As an international author, narcissist abuse recovering coach, Podcast host of Empath & Narcissist and creator of healing workshops. She is dispelling the narcissists' power one soul at a time.

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