How To Learn To Radically Love Yourself & Leave a Narcissist | S3 Ep 49

How To Learn To Radically Love Yourself & Leave a Narcissist with Monica Rodgers

“There has never been a more important time for women to reveal the truth of who we are as a catalyst for positive change in the world as the Divine Feminine returns.” ”

– Monica Rodgers
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Harmony in the Stars: Libra Season, Fall Equinox, and the Energies of Human Design Gates Empath Rising: Spiritual Healing with Human Design from Trauma & Narcissistic Abuse

Are you too serious? Do you need to play with your Inner Child?In this illuminating episode, we dive into the cosmic energies surrounding Libra season and the fall equinox, exploring how these celestial events influence our lives. Join us as we unravel the essence of balance, harmony, and the quest for justice that Libra season brings.>>Fall Equinox Libra Season: Autumn is here! Today is equal daylight and nighttime hours.>>How we can Heal using Libra Energy: You, dear empath, can focus on several aspects to help heal their emotional body and find balance.But that's not all – we take it a step further by delving into the fascinating world of Human Design gates. Discover how specific gates can impact your energy during this season, offering insights into your emotions, relationships, and life's purpose. From Gate 46's determination to Gate 25's innocence, we decode the energies that shape your journey.>>Human Design Gates: Sun Gate 46: Love of Body, Moon Gate 58: Joy, Earth Gate 25 Love of SpiritWhether you're a seasoned astrologer, a Human Design enthusiast, or simply curious about the energies at play during Libra season, this episode is your cosmic guide to finding equilibrium and tapping into the wisdom of the stars. Tune in and align yourself with the rhythms of the universe as we navigate the energies of autumn.Find the Blogs, Inner Child Meditation, and offering links on the Episode PageMusic YouTube Library: Sweet  Sweet by LiQWYD | promoted by under Creative Commons: Attribution 3.0 Unported (CC BY 3.0)
Guest: Monica Rodgers

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Disrupting The Trance of Unworthiness Learn to Radically Love Yourself with Monica Rodgers

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How To Learn To Radically Love Yourself & Leave a Narcissist

[00:00:00] Welcome back to the Empath and the narcissist podcast. The mission of this podcast is to bring you education, inspiration, and empowerment. Through relatable conversations. Empowering information. And self-care self-healing practices.

[00:00:17] Raven Scott: Monica Rogers is bringing an infectious, warmth and playful levity, wherever she goes. She is a tireless advocate for the full actualization of a woman, inspiring women everywhere to say, to saying yes to the mess. And this is the missing link to self-love and personal awakening. Through her podcast and group coaching programs, Monica guides, women through their inner, our revolutionary slash evolution from trans to transcendence revealing the toxic myths of social conditioning and self doubt in order to eliminate the magic and magnificence of our imperfect.

She believes that women can take action towards realizing our true potential. Only when we stop proving and striving to be who everyone wants us to be. When we reveal the truth of who we are, we return to our original design and with the practice of self love and compassion, we become aligned, opening the portal into our divine purpose where true POS prosperity.

There has never been a more important time for women to reveal the truth of who we are as a catalyst for positive change in the world as the divine feminine returns. Welcome to the podcast, Monica.

[00:01:49] Monica Rodgers: Hey Raven. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:52] Raven Scott: It’s a pleasure and honor, and I just have to say, if any of you listeners are familiar with Daniella port before we hit record, I was like, has anyone said [00:02:00] you sound so soothing?

Like Danielle LaPorte.

[00:02:04] Monica Rodgers: Which I love, of course I’ll take that compliment any day.

[00:02:08] Raven Scott: Yeah. And, and just your energy and vibe. So I’m really excited to get in this conversation. We’re going to geek out a little bit on human design, but before we even dive into that, I wanted to have her, share with us, her expertise on the divine feminine, and really saying yes to the.

So share with us a tiny bit of your journey of how you got to this place of wisdom.

[00:02:32] Monica Rodgers: Oh, I would love to, it’s one of my favorite subjects. You know, I would, I would say that growing up, I always knew that something was missing and for your listeners, you know, I know that many of us have grown up in institutionalized religion.

Right. Like, and, and it’s really, that was really hard for me because when you don’t necessarily. Fit with those teachings. It can be very isolating. And I, I, I don’t know about any of you, but I was not given spiritual autonomy. So it wasn’t like my family was like, well, let’s check something else out.

You know? Like, let’s see what works for you either.

[00:03:12] Raven Scott: I believe in Jesus or you’re going to hell and they still fear that I’m going to hell today.

[00:03:16] Monica Rodgers: Yeah. Well, and that, that part of it is really what I call like, you know, we’d get to a point in our lives where we have to decide, you know, like, am I going to continue to comply and be what I got.

Pretty pleasing and polite, or am I actually going to stop complying and do what feels true to my heart and true to my path. And that’s what I call the unbecoming process. And I love that term so much because of course so many of us that we, as the women who are listening are socialized. You know, in terms of what is becoming for a woman or what [00:04:00] is, you know, what, in these gender roles that really also do not serve.

And I think we’re more and more learning about that. So for me, the revelation project and revealing is, is very near and dear to my heart because I believe that so much. What’s true about why we’re here and what our purpose is. It’s, it’s like it’s, it’s cloaked in the mystery and it’s up to us, whether or not we want to explore that mystery and start to reveal and feel and heal our lives.

And so for me, it was also about revealing the feminine face, the divine, which when you really, really start to. Um, on earth, the teachings that were hidden by design were purposely co-opted or changed to fit the patriarchal narrative. You start to recognize like, oh my goodness. Like, you know, God was never a gender, you know, God was all right or in.

And I even like to exchange that word with life, right. For me, like life is sourced. And so for any of your listeners, it’s just really about whatever you believe is that bigger source or that bigger essence or energy that calls to you or that, you know, is, is that. That beautiful thing that makes magic in the world.


[00:05:31] Raven Scott: yeah. I resonate with that. I know our audience does too, because so, so many times I talk about. You know, source God, the divine, whatever you want to call it. It is not a, he, it is not Caucasian. You know, it is feminine. It is masculine and his everything, and his energy and

[00:05:49] Monica Rodgers: his, yeah. And it’s not out there.

It’s in here, you know, that’s the other thing.

[00:05:54] Raven Scott: Yeah. Yeah. True. And until you can find your light, like the thing I always say at the [00:06:00] end of the podcast is keep your unique light shining. And that’s part of it like source is within you and sources. That’s right. I love that. That we, we connect on that level.

Now I have a question that comes to mind. Was there, like what brought you out of your pretty people pleasing role as a child and into more of your.

[00:06:23] Monica Rodgers: I would say it was the dark night of the soul that happened about 13 years ago. Uh, it was right around the time of the economic crash and it was really what I now know is.

So normal as we kind of have each of us have our moment of awakening, you know, like I thought there’s something wrong on me with me. I need a, clearly I need to be medicated. Right? Like all the things we think when we start to actually feel our lives. And I had really been doing all of the things that so many of us do through socialization, which is to wear all of the masks.

You know, I had learned to like, tap, tap, dance my way, you know, like for my next trick, you know, it’s just like trying to like, you know, just get by all the time. And, you know, really, I had even done so much leadership work, but I think I knew how to talk the talk, but I didn’t know how to walk the walk and.

What, what truly was behind all of that was kind of an unrevealed self-loathing that? I think so many of us are also taught to feel because when we’re taught to abandon ourselves our whole life and choose belonging over ourselves, you know, that that starts to actually like, and we start to internalize all of these messages.

It creates a really messy situation when you do turn towards it, which is why, of course. Teaching women to say yes to that mass, because when we do finally kind of have that breakdown within it contain the [00:08:00] seeds to the breakthrough, but first we have to be brave and like dare to be with all of. Uh, sticky, gritty, yucky things that we’ve created.

Um, and part of it for me was like actually taking responsibility for that mass. And, and there was a point where I had to just stop blaming everybody else for it. You know, I had to stop, you know, and while I talk a lot about patriarchy and really, um, identifying. System I D and I do think that’s important.

It’s not for the purpose of blaming and not taking responsibility. It’s more about seeing it, revealing it so we can, we can take part in healing it and we each have our part to play.

[00:08:47] Raven Scott: Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of those, um, religions, if you get caught up in what pastors are saying or what the collective is doing, It is very guilt and shame driven to keep everyone there, to keep the offerings coming in the baskets, to keep everyone coming back to take communion or whatever the religion is or going to mosque, or I don’t know much about that, but for me it was Christianity and it was really the, the, to see the hypocrisy as I turned 18, I, I really rebelled against and questioned.

Well, wait a second. Evolution exists. Like that’s my other big thing, especially the extreme religions where they don’t really share with you of the world, quote, unquote concepts, like real science, real evolution that really puts you in a place where you question everything. And it’s like, have I been gaslighted like this, my entire childhood?

And when he answers, yes, that’s really hard.

[00:09:46] Monica Rodgers: It’s very hard to process and it can be so disorienting because if we don’t, if, if not that, then what, right. And sometimes the unknown is even scarier to us, but, but that’s where [00:10:00] the. The divine feminine is. And that’s the other thing that I want to point out is that the unknown is, is that beautiful void where something new gets to be born, you know?

And so depending on how you look at it, and there are different, you know, conversations within that. But it’s really just such, um, it’s like the beginning of the beginning, you know, it’s just really a magical place to be. I didn’t know it then, you know, so, right. So, so like I can, I can sit here in my pretty armchair and be like, yes, it’s all good.

But you know, when you actually are facing it, it’s like at one of those really like, oh shit moments.

[00:10:42] Raven Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I always like in, you know, I’m thinking also back to when. Debating and trying, I attempted like seven times to leave my narcissist partner. He was my first love. My only love, I didn’t know anything else.

And he convinced me that only he would love me and all this BS. And so it was like the abyss, whether it’s, you’re getting out of a relationship or you’re going out on your own from your family and like being the black sheep, it’s like this deep, dark abyss. And the fear of the unknown in the future is really.

It’s really good.

[00:11:17] Monica Rodgers: Yeah, it is. And it really, it invites all kinds of different things, which is some of that is, you know, to face those fears. Like that’s an invitation, another fear is to trust, you know, like that’s an invitation. And so trust and faith started to have whole new meaning for me, you know, when that time in my life happened.

And to go back to your question for a minute, you know, I was also very rebellious from a young age. So like, I literally remember going to church as a young girl and actually, um, I work with this concept that I call the trance of [00:12:00] unworthiness. And you had read about it in the bio because I really look at.

How we’re socialized. And again, whether or not you were part of a religious group, and if you, if you, and if you are right, I, I also don’t want to invalidate those listeners who, who, you know, um, gain and it serves them. Right. And again, and they gained value from it. I’m not here to say, you know, I’m here to, to do my revelation project, not to do anybody else’s.

So for me, it was not a fit, but. But one of the things that was really clear to me when, you know, I heard of course the Genesis story of Eve, you know, there’s kind of a Genesis one story and there’s a Genesis two story. Um, you know, it, I remember just hearing the one about, you know, the woman is kind of the companion she’s made out of his rib.

It’s like, we’re suddenly in a new. By down where members the world, wait a minute, how did that happen? And, and, you know, just really from a historical and then a theological, um, you know, standpoint, really starting to understand again, that that story was changed to serve political ends. Right. And, and so it’s, it becomes like really fascinating when you start breaking it down.

But I remember as a little girl, like looking around like indignant, like everybody, like, and looking around in the women’s. Standing there with their eyes wide open. And that’s what I started calling. The trance of unworthiness, like they were in the trans like, cause they weren’t angry. They were just, they were

[00:13:39] Raven Scott: just like Adam versus being like what?

[00:13:42] Monica Rodgers: I’m not eating. Uh, yeah, well, or right. Like or whatever the thing is that has us kind of go to sleep within ourselves or actually abandoned ourselves in that place. Because part of what I’ve really come to realize as well, is that. We have to, as [00:14:00] women, there’s a way that we actually abandon the body because it becomes emotionally uninhabitable to live inside of our body in this culture.

And so we leave, we, we literally leave, we disassociate and we go up into our head where the trans is, and that’s where we no longer have access to our energy PS because it’s not up. Right. It’s it’s, it’s here, you know, it’s in our heart, it’s in our intuition, it’s in our body. Our body holds the wisdom for women.

[00:14:34] Raven Scott: And you think that the patriarchal suppression or, and, or religious, or maybe even being raised to be quiet, like, I think the generations now are going to be improving. Like there’s no more, like be quiet and don’t have an opinion. At least I know in my household, my, my girls are asked every Sunday, like, Family decisions versus where us growing up.

Right. We were never included in those conversations. It was like, be quiet, go along with it, make sure everyone’s happy. Give people the benefit of the doubt. And then all of a sudden you’re wondering why we’re all like experiencing narcissistic abuse is because we’ve been trained to yeah. And we’ve been conditioned to be in that trance.

So you think that. You think all of those elements contribute to? Yes.

[00:15:20] Monica Rodgers: I call it death by a thousand tiny paper cuts, you know, it’s like, it’s that idea of just really over time being like programmed, you know, it’s just, they’re they seem inconsequential when they’re happening. It’s like, oh, it’s just a little message here and there.

But then when you actually start to recognize the accumulation of the messages there’s there’s, um, It’s like, nobody gets out of that alive in that like awake. I just want, I should say not alive, but it’s kind of true. It deadens you over time.

[00:15:55] Raven Scott: Yeah. And then there’s the numbing and even physical aspects, like staying [00:16:00] busy, doing too much drinking alcohol,

[00:16:04] Monica Rodgers: whatever the

[00:16:04] Raven Scott: murder.

Yeah. Yeah. And then becoming almost like the codependent and or maybe narcissistic female role. Like you say, like narcissists always are playing the victim, like, oh, boo-hoo me all the time versus taking responsibility. Yeah. So then becoming the murder you’re right. Yeah. So that contributes to the narcissistic mother, not to give an excuse, but this whole thing is a big snowball

[00:16:31] Monica Rodgers: effect.

That’s right. And you know, I, I just recently finished, um, A teacher training. I got a certification to do the archetypical work of what’s called the maiden to mother, right. The maiden and the mother archetypes. And I learned so much about the mother wound and how that gets past, you know, and it’s fascinating because, you know, in some cases we’re all the daughters of mothers, but we’re also all daughters of the patriarchy.

And so as much as we can. I think when we start to become awakened and I’ll speak for myself, there was a period of time where I was pissed at my mother. I mean, I.

[00:17:16] Raven Scott: Right. Talk to mine or go to holidays for years.

[00:17:19] Monica Rodgers: Oh my gosh. I mean the anger and the rage, right? Oh my goodness. And you know, and I think that I really it’s still really, like, I love Pam.

I show Tran who always talks about like our triggers are teachers and she’s also got such a funny. Sense of humor in that she’s like, oh, you think you’re evolved, go home and visit your family. You know what I mean? And I’m always like, oh yeah. Cause you know, as much as you can be like all enlightened and all of that, you know, at the, but at the end of the day, we’re human and you know, it’s like a little bit of [00:18:00] over tired and just a little bit of this and, you know, there’s that familiar trigger.

So it’s really, it’s a constant practice. And, you know, you can see me. I know your listeners can’t but I’m continually putting my hand over my heart because that’s the way that I remind myself to come back to myself, you know, to stay in my own hula hoop, to do my own revelation project. Don’t do my mothers.

Don’t do my daughter’s, you know, don’t do my friends, just do my own revelation project. What is here for me to do what is here for me to own and who can I forgive? You know, because. There’s a way that like, yes, we, I think we have to go through all the things, the grief, the steps, the blame, all of that stuff that we have to go through to get to that place where we’re actually like, okay, I think I’m done.

You know, I think I’m done blaming everybody else. I think I, I think I’m ready to actually take responsibility for everything I created now, you know, and then Christmas comes around.

So good. Yeah, that’s right. But you have

[00:19:05] Raven Scott: a new revelation for my audience that

[00:19:07] Monica Rodgers: I write and it’s like, and don’t forget to laugh. Don’t forget to laugh because it’s. The way, you know, it’s just like, I think, you know, to the way we kind of evolve is so cyclical and it’s layered and it’s a mystery in itself, but I always like to tell myself that it’s not the exact same trigger.

That’s a little different. Maybe it’s a little more evolved, you know, and then sometimes it’s not, but the bottom line is that, you know, I am still human. And I think what we get better at doing is recovering and realigning. And I love saying that when we do align, we are divine because that’s that place where, when we are in alignment, when we are centered, when we are intentional, we can still be messy, but we can own it.

We can come from a place that [00:20:00] gives ourselves space and grace, you know, to just be human. Oh, well, I’m human after.

[00:20:07] Raven Scott: Oh, I love that. Yeah. And every time, if we’re really intentional about working on it and not getting sucked into their drama, every Christmas and you’re evaluating, and what I love to do is journal it all out, like all the rage and all the anger, and then transmute it to the universe.

It all it continues to evolve. And the lesson you learned is get deeper and your boundaries get stronger and you just, you start to develop that radical. Like self-awareness that you’re like, okay, now I see it like so many more light bulbs will go off. The more you, you do your introspective work, like, and I wanted to ask you about the self love, because I think that’s huge.

If you don’t have that self of practice, then all that drama just becomes drama and you get confused. Right? Why, um, why is the mess portal like into the self liberation and self love? Why is it so.

[00:21:04] Monica Rodgers: Well, it’s so great because I don’t know if you’ve ever seen, I don’t necessarily like, love the book, but you know, the, the book Atlas shrugged by Anne Rand, or I think that’s the author, but it’s like kind of that picture of, of this guy with the world on his shoulders.

Like for me, that’s women, women. We carry the world on our shoulders and it gets really interesting when you start to consider all of the extra labor that we do, um, like the emotional labor, right. It’s like, we’ve talked about the third shift and we T you know, like I even noticed it myself, right? Like what.

What I do, how I treat my children differently. Right? Like, I’m getting better at this, but because I was conditioned to see girls one way and boys and other, right. It’s just true that, you know, we can tend to kind of do it all. And somehow, like, you know, my son can like [00:22:00] sit on the couch and be eating chips.

His sister is like cleaning up around him. I’m like, whoa, you know, what’s happening here? Um, you know, and that was my life growing up too. It was like such different treatment for the boys. Right. And it’s like, so I’ve, I’ve really seen women. And for the longest time I had so much internal misogyny. So I would just want to call that out because that’s a big cultural thing.

It’s like we also live in a very misogynistic culture. And so we internalize that. So at some point. I really got that. I didn’t know what it really meant to be in a truly intimate and wonderful relationship with women because I had been conditioned not to trust women. Right. And so where the mass comes in is when you start to actually turn towards some of these things and it doesn’t feel good, it doesn’t feel comfortable.

It doesn’t, you know, make me look good. Right. And we’re so much about appearances and so shit gets messy, fast and. I can talk about this from, you know, like a blowup perspective and having a mess on our hands or just the messy business of being human. Right. But we do all get to a point where we are so afraid to let go, because God forbid the day we let go, well, then who’s going to clean it.

Right then who’s going to clean it up. And part of it, you know, what I want to say is part of it for women is like, we train the world how to be in relationship with us. So we get what we tolerate. And so if we’ve actually been, you know, tolerating it for this long, and suddenly we just say like, I am not doing this anymore.

And we like hit our internal. That’s actually good news because the second where we let it all fall apart is when we [00:24:00] start to actually be able to breathe again. It’s actually, when we start connecting back to our spirit, because I don’t know about any of you out there, but there was a time in my life that I stopped breathing.

That’s how that’s how heavy and how tight it had all become. It was like, I had breath, hunger, air hunger, like I could never breathe. It was like, the trauma was like, you know, like constricting everything and just the, the efforting and the striving. It was in the perfectionism, my God. Right? Like. So

[00:24:37] Raven Scott: I’m thinking back to my lowest time and I always likened it like, oh, well, I just didn’t get enough sleep.

So I’m on like, I’m really like short of breath. But when you say that, I was like, thank God. It wasn’t because I didn’t get enough sleep. I mean, for sure he didn’t let me sleep that night, but, uh, I just, you sh you should still be able to breathe. Like I just always, always short

[00:24:57] Monica Rodgers: of. Yeah, it’s the nervous system and it just a, can’t it like, we’re not designed to be that way.

You know, we’re not designed to live that way. And the truth is women are, and this is where I talk about how we live in the upside down. And as women, like, whenever something comes at us, we have to get really good at kind of flipping it over and looking at it because, because the truth is right, like.

Like we’ve been taught to avoid masses because somehow they implicate. ’cause think of Eve, right? Like that was a mass, like what you do, you had to eat from the apple, that tree of knowledge, like now, like what a mess. Right. And, and meanwhile, that’s not even, that was a story, right. That got told in order for women to be the scapegoat.

And, and it kind of created exactly what we’ve got, which is, you know, this situation where women are in this trance of unworthy. [00:26:00] And we’ve got little boys ruling the world. Who’ve never been initiated into true adult manhood, right? Like

[00:26:09] Raven Scott: no Piney. She’d like emotional intelligence of kindergartners, first graders running around and ruling the world,

[00:26:15] Monica Rodgers: ruling the world.

And I want to say, you know, it’s just as much in our court as like the wounded maidens, right? Like that, that believe we’ve got to stay young and. And be pretty pleasing and polite to have value

[00:26:31] Raven Scott: and enable it.

[00:26:32] Monica Rodgers: Right. You know, exactly. Picture my son back up on the couch, right. 80 of the potato chips while my daughter’s cleaning around him.

Right. Like, so when we start turning toward these truths and we start looking at them and we start wincing, it’s like, Ooh, I don’t like this. It doesn’t feel good. And part of this is also when we returned to the body. Right. That is a messy stuff. It’s like all the alarm bells are going off because we’ve been disassociating and numbing out.

So like when we come back into our bodies, this is a messy situation for awhile and we’ve been taught and we’ve been taught that it’s a mess. So like I invite women back, not because, oh, like, uh, you know, it’s messy at first, but when we start getting like really rude. Really rooted back into the truth of who we are.

It’s not messy anymore. It’s clean and it’s clear and it’s filled with integrity and it’s an, and this is the, this is the part that gets me so excited because when we get through the messy part and we know who we are, like no kidding. We are a force of love and ruthless compassion. Ruthless. And, and that comes from a place of true mother love, and it comes from a place of sufficiency, which is not a sexy [00:28:00] word, but give me a minute.

Because Lynn twist is one of my mentors and she taught, she wrote the book, the soul of money, and she talks about this whole thing of not enoughness and how we’re taught to live in this world of scarcity. And yet mother nature shows us every day that sufficiency and reciprocity and abundance are our birth.

Okay. So scarcity is really up here in the head is in the trance when we’re out of the head and we’re in the body, we get this, we get this so much. And when we are sufficient, when we are in touch with our own enoughness women, the interesting part is then we start saying enough, that’s enough of you on the couch with your potato chips.

Mm. That’s enough of you ruling the world, like a little boy who’s tantruming. That’s enough of you desecrating mother earth. That’s enough. And when women have had enough shit starts to change. Yeah. Watch out. Yeah. Watch out. Yeah. And you know this because you’ve been in a narcissistic relationship and I think narcissism is our teacher and it is a gift for women.

It is a gift for us. If we get that, it’s the grit that makes the Pearl, if we’d get to our I’ve had enough.

[00:29:28] Raven Scott: Yeah. And the mess that you were saying earlier inside of us, is it hours like, I want to just affirm that, probably all of that mess that you think that, you know, you have to work through to get to your beautiful, unique, like sovereign you, is that.

[00:29:45] Monica Rodgers: Well, it’s such a great question, right? And it’s such a great inquiry in my case. Right. I can answer for myself. It was all of the unresolved emotions that I had stuffed down that I had stepped over, that [00:30:00] I had numbed out. It like being back in my body was so uncomfortable. It was like, get me the hell out of here.

Like, I can’t do this. Right. I can’t tell you how many times I probably said this. I can’t do this. No, like I’m not doing this. I even remember saying that on the childbirth table, but that’s a different story. It was obvious I couldn’t get out of it. Right. But it, you know, and then it’s, it’s the trauma, it’s our nervous systems.

Right. It’s it’s really, and, and I think, again, we come by that, honestly, because living in this world, it is actually like a very triggering place, but we have to learn to become the safest person in the room. You know, that’s where women and our potential and who we are and how we’re designed is so potent.

And it’s so powerful, which is exactly why it was taken in, turned upside down, was in you and used against us is because. I mean, I don’t really know the reason why, but I know that that has something to do with it. Yeah.

[00:31:11] Raven Scott: And I don’t know how the evolution exactly. Of how it switched because before Christianity was so huge before all this patriarchy during, um, like stoicism time, let’s say back like Marcus, a really assists time Rome and that like men and female equally ruled men and a female were on the same.

Wavelength. They were not like men is on a pedestal. You woman, you’re a witch, let’s burn you on a steak. Like that was not at all, anything. So I have, I would be curious to research that and see what happened, but needless, nevertheless, it is what it is. And I think this whole narcissism like movement, I call it like the great narcissist awakening.

Pretty much since 2016, it started and initiated when [00:32:00] there was one elected to presidency and it was so just powerful for people to be like, oh, I didn’t even know like my parents were, or I didn’t even know that this relationship I’m in is so toxic. So it’s really, um, something that’s really important to, to look into.

And I wanted to ask you, why is radical self approval? A tool for transforming.

[00:32:29] Monica Rodgers: Yeah, I think, well, for me, again, I go back to like the hand on the heart, right. Because even just this morning, I, you know, had a meltdown and, and so it’s that moment for me, where I put my hand on my heart and I just say, it’s okay.

You know, it’s it’s okay. You get to be messy. You got to be human, you know, does that mean I don’t have to clean it up, right? Yeah. I still have to clean up my messes, you know, when their mind to clean up, when I get triggered and I project, right. Or I. Take out my frustrations on somebody, you know, like some innocent victim, um, you know, those are, those are my messes to clean up.

And certainly as mothers, we have those moments right. Where we just hit the, the penthouse floor. Right. It’s like, I’ve, I’ve asked nicely eight times and now I’m, I’m, I’ve hit the penthouse. Right? And while we can resolve to be better about that, the bottom line is like, I’m where I don’t want to ever get back to is the place I was, which was, I was so unkind to myself.

And, you know, I came to this revelation once where I was like, no one could have made me feel any worse. Then I had actually already made myself feel

[00:33:57] Raven Scott: always 100%. I was

[00:33:59] Monica Rodgers: [00:34:00] so tough on myself and I know this to be true for most women. It’s like, we have this thing that like, if we get it wrong, like, or if it’s messy or if it’s like that, it becomes like shame related suddenly to shame.

Hmm. So what was the antidote for me to shame it’s like this radical self love and self approval, you know? And, and it gives me permission in that moment, you know, and it’s the permission to fire myself from a job. That’s just a job or to. I give myself permission to take a time out or a nap or to nourish myself, you know, it’s, it’s also, I talk about it as like my birthright.

Right. Which is that earlier, it’s like, it’s my right to nominate myself for. Challenges that I might not get right, right away. Right. But like, I see something for myself. And so the only thing that would keep me from doing it is the fear of failure. So I have to give myself permission and that grace to fail a few times.

Cause guess what? That’s actually how I learn. I don’t know about you, but like I fail fast and I’m proud of it because that’s how I learn. I learned really fast, but I also fail fast. You know, so it’s like, it’s kind of turning everything on its head that we’ve been taught to avoid, especially for women.

And so I think about all of those places that we’ve been taught not to go like our emotions, our intuition, our sexuality, our sensuality, and I say, oh, that’s because they’re power centers. Those are power centers. You know, those are, those are where we have to do what I call the reclamation. And before we do the reclamation, we have to have the reckoning and the reckoning is the messy part, but it’s the reckoning that brings us back in [00:36:00] touch with our humanity and our birthright.

And it allows us to love ourselves again, even in the. And for the listeners, you know, I love, and even though it’s a little bit trite, it, it dawned on me like, oh, that’s why the Lotus blooms in the mud. You know how tick not Han says no mud, no Lotus. It’s like, because it needs, we need the money. We actually need the grit.

We need the mud, we need the darkness to become the light. Right. And I don’t even want to call the mass the darkness because what we’ve really learned when we dare to go there is that we are the light. So any darkness that comes our way, we illuminated it. It’s what we do. We’re made of light. Yeah.

[00:36:49] Raven Scott: I agree so much over and over every single one.

And it is through the grit that, that beautiful, it’s really interesting that such a beautiful flower can come from such a wet and muddy place and money place is it’s such a beautiful analogy we have to learn. And you were saying, oh, like, I fail so fast and I learn so fast. I’m like, are you a manifesting generator?

[00:37:17] Monica Rodgers: You’re a generator.

[00:37:19] Raven Scott: Generator is amazing, but, uh, what is your profile?

[00:37:24] Monica Rodgers: So when you say profile, you got 2, 4, 2, 4 hermit. Opportunist. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:32] Raven Scott: So be with the opportunists and the opportunities always are like the ultimate entrepreneurs. That is where I interpret your like, experimentation and fix. Energy coming from.

It’s like, why don’t try it. Go ahead. Let’s try it. What’s it going to hurt? Okay. We have now. And like, and usually those entrepreneurs who succeed, they’ve done 10, 100 projects before the one that really takes off. And so. Yeah, that’s right.

[00:37:58] Monica Rodgers: And I have the, I [00:38:00] have the channel, the researcher channel and the right.

And then the, I guess it’s the freak genius channel. And then there’s certain things. I think that like, I’ve started really being like, oh, that’s why, you know, like certain things it’s like the podcaster. Right. And then it’s just so cool to look at human design and understand certain things about myself that.

I realize now, especially when it, when I go back to that conversation about self-love that sometimes looking at it through the lens of human design, I realized, gosh, I’m not even designed to do that. So why am I being so hard on myself? You know? Yeah.

[00:38:38] Raven Scott: It’s cause like you said earlier, we’re conditioned to be so hard on our subs are conditioned to be in a certain box.

And if we don’t fit in, you know, it’s like goes back to the whole tribal fear of we’re going to get kicked out of the group and we won’t survive and no one will like us or love us. And that’s like the. Human fear, you know, not even a brain in the survival in the spleen. That’s right. Yeah. But it, it isn’t, and I love human design because it allows you to know yourself intimately.

And once you realize that you, it just, for me, just the same as what you said before we hit record, like it made so much sense. I understood so much more about even how you interact with other people. Like, oh, well, I was always taught to do this as a child or, you know, in, in society, like most, all of us are taught to be like the manifester who is the, just do it type of person who can initiate things.

And you wonder why so many of us are frustrated and getting guidance from certain business coaches trying to get the right formula. It’s like, we all have our unique formula. And why try and do that person’s formula when you have your own unique.

[00:39:48] Monica Rodgers: And the other part, Raven, that I love so much is just this understanding of, oh my gosh, we’re all designed to work together, right?

Like, because we, in so many cases [00:40:00] help each other complete certain aspects of our design and it’s so collaborative that, you know, I go back to like, um, Just some of what we learned in school, right? Like survival of the fittest or, you know, and it’s, again, it’s, those were theories that have been disproved.

Right. It’s like all of these things and just really, there’s still so many tenants. Um, that or that we, we continue to kind of live in our present life that have been disproved and they’re, they’re not serving and they’re not useful, but they’re kind of like embedded in our, in our socialization, you know, including kind of this narcissistic way that we all strive for more than we need.

And we, we center ourselves and. You know, it’s just, there’s this self-serving way that we’ve been conditioned to think about ourselves, that it just gets really interesting once you start the unbecoming process to kind of, cause every part of that is a little bit messy, like looking at our tendency towards let’s say racism, even if it’s unconscious.

Right. It’s messy and it’s scary. And it’s hard to admit that we don’t know certain things or that were mortified that we never, you know, like actually looked into the land that we live on to know who were the indigenous people that were here before me. And how can I honor them? Right. Like, so. The unbecoming process is messy is my point.

And it’s why I love the mess so much is because if we’re not constantly in a state of self love and approval and self approval, we’re going to get really stopped in our, in our efforts to. Become a better human. So we can’t let the mass be the deterrent because that’s where we have these moments of revelation.

And it’s the moments of [00:42:00] revelation that create the revolution. Hmm.

[00:42:04] Raven Scott: Yeah. And the fear of maybe stepping out on your own that self-love and self-discovery is key for you to be able to. Remove yourself from the stairs of the narcissist and be out on your own and to find, you know, yourself, find yourself first and your love.

And like you said, that unbecoming and the human design helps you rewire, you know, what you’ve been wired to be, which is not your true nature, your true, highest self, and all of that is a beautiful process to. Become you and to shine your beautiful, unique light out into the world. Like you said, it’s a force to be reckoned with when it’s shining clean and authentic and bright.

[00:42:48] Monica Rodgers: Yeah. And you know, I love what you just said about, um, those who are afraid right. To, to leave, you know, because, because it is. It’s like, there’s no place, that’s more disorienting than being with a narcissist where you’ve literally been fed lies and Gaslight at, you know, gas lit your whole relationship to the point where you don’t know what, what is true and what’s not it’s so, you know, it’s like this constantly spinning thing that happens and it.

It’s so it’s such a big deal to. You know, to, to do this work of self-love in that case, because when you start to, you know, have enough of it and start to trust that actually it’s, it’s not you creating that. Right. But that, yes, it’s going to be messy when you leave. Right. That, but, but one thing I will say, which is the minute we stop, start loving ourselves, it’s literally [00:44:00] like the universe.

Everything aligns. They, as soon as you turn that energy towards yourself and genuinely start loving yourself and treating yourself with compassion, it is literally like magic starts to show up in your life. And I have tons of stories about how that happened in my own life. Maybe a podcast for another time, but that truly is where the magic starts is with self.

[00:44:29] Raven Scott: I agree. I agree. You elevate your vibration. You’re loving yourself. You’re not worried about everything on the outside and you just get to be who you are purposefully, uniquely, supposed to be here. Yeah, I agree. The magic starts then. So finding your S your unique self through this process, the messy process, um, You know, listening to the podcast Monica’s podcast and just gaining as much self-development tools as possible.

You’re, you’ll see yourself transformed it’s a little bit at a day, right? A little bit and a little bit that you will eventually not be able to recognize yourself in a good way. And I remember hearing that when I was on the first part of my journey, I was like, I want that. I want to not recognize myself.

I want to stop being such a pushover and a pleaser. And I want to stop, like, with all this. But yeah, get there.

[00:45:24] Monica Rodgers: Yeah. I remember Raven, somebody saying to me, um, well, what are you going to do? You know, like I knew, I knew I had to leave. Right. But I remember them being, where are you going to go? And I was like, I don’t know.

And it was like, what are you going to do? And I was like, I don’t know. It was like, I don’t know, was my answer for everything. And it was like, I was watching them panic. Right. But like, there was part of me was like, I don’t know. And trusting for the first time. [00:46:00] That something was going to show up that was going to show me and that I didn’t need to know everything right now.

In fact, I knew nothing. Right. But that there is this way that each step got revealed. And again, that’s the other reason I call it. The revelation project is because the minute we’re in relationship with the universe in that way, where we realize that we’re actually, we can lean into the universe and we can.

Catch me, you know, catch me and trust that the universe is going to catch us because things do happen when we dare to stop. You know, when we dare to stop letting somebody abuse us.

[00:46:40] Raven Scott: That’s true. Yeah. You just got to trust the universe will catch you coming from both of us. We both experienced it.

Thank you so much for this conversation, Monica, it’s truly been a blessing to have you here on the.

[00:46:58] Monica Rodgers: Likewise. It’s been a total blessing to be here with you and, and your listeners. A really, I love these conversations. They give me life. I get so excited. You know, I obviously get like, super passionate about it sometimes after I’m like, gosh, that was messy, Monica.

And then I get to practice. Yeah. Yes. The

[00:47:16] Raven Scott: people we, we want to hear real people, right? That’s what’s coming to a new incarnation. Cross of the sleepy. Phoenix is the real people, the people in the. Not the perfectly put together celebrity people. So it’s beautiful just as you are. Thank you everyone. You guys can find her and all her links in the show notes below, just to, you know, grab the picture with your finger, swipe up and the description will pop up and all her links will be there again.

Thank you and have a beautiful day.

[00:47:46] Monica Rodgers: Thanks so much


Watch this conversation

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How to master your boundaries:

  • Envision yourself saying NO
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  • Dream of yourself saying NO
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when you are controlled by a narcissist you will never reach your true potential as a beautiful human being. There is hope though! You are here to elevate the collective and evolve in your souls journey. The dark egoistic people are drawn to your empathic light – like a moth to the light.

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Raven Scott

Raven Scott is providing women, who are feeling lost and alone in their journey, a community to kick ass as we become empowered together while healing from childhood trauma, abusive relationships, or plain old life, and awaken to rewrite our karmic story. Through astrology, self care, human design, & intuition.
We are energetically clearing ancestral patterns one step at a time to find our power and potential through healing so you can live empowered the unique loved individual you desire to be. Topics covered: Self development, Human design, Astrology, tarot, meditative thoughts, intuitive message from spirit, and expert guests sharing different spiritual healing modalities.
Your host and Patreon Community mentor, Raven Scott, is a narcissitic abuse survivor, author of Empath and The Narcissist: A Healing Guide for People Pleasers. And also is a Certified Meditation Teacher. Join us on

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Raven Scott is an Empathic Spiritual Healer, Intl. Author, Podcaster, and Narc Abuse Soul Healing Coach in her Empath Healing Membership Community with the use of somatic healing exercises, Moon Rituals, Tarot, and Astrology & Human Design Reading.

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