83. Why do I Attract Emotionally Unavailable Partners? with Keresse Thompson. LCSW
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[00:00:00] Raven Scott: Welcome to the empath and the narcissist podcast. Where you regain your sparkle back after narcissistic abuse. 

[00:00:11] . I am your host, Raven Scott, your go-to narcissist abuse recovery coach. 

[00:00:18] Repeat after me. I am awakened. I am the chain breaker. I am the daughter of the earth. 

[00:00:27] I relate to you empath and your struggles. And this show is here to support you. 

[00:00:34] And empower you. Your future self is calling. Get your free 10 powerful ways to defeat the narcissist and embrace. Your empath superpowers audio gift. In the link in the show notes today. 

[00:00:55] Raven Scott: Welcome back. I am joined by Keresse Thompson today. She has a book Diary of the Empath as well as her podcast, and I'm just really, , excited. And so looking forward to our conversation, we're diving into this topic of the root cause of, you know, how we ended up here, how we ended up in a toxic relationship with a narcissist, which was one of my biggest questions when I first emerged or, you know, kind of realized how bad of a situation I was in.

[00:01:28] Keresse is. 36, a Marine Core Vet. She became a licensed clinical social worker. 10 years ago, she's a single mom of a 14 year old girl. She is an empath. And psychic intuitive. She definitely has her fair share of childhood trauma, which she shares with us today. 

[00:01:50] She also runs a, a worldwide podcast called diary of an empath. And she is a self-published. Author, of [00:02:00] Diary of an Empath.

[00:02:01] she's the owner of therapeutic healing by Reese. And 

[00:02:05] Now without further ado. Let's get into it. 

[00:02:10] Raven Scott: So thank you so much for being here. 

[00:02:13] Keresse Thompson: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to talk about this. I think it's a subject that a lot of people don't necessarily understand, but sometimes find themselves in. So I think a lot of people listening that are probably new to this will hopefully get some really good insight moving forward.

[00:02:29] So thank you so much for having me on. mm-hmm . 

[00:02:33] Raven Scott: And, um, with all of your training and plus you have personal experience, I wanted to ask you, um, just a little bit about yourself and what brought you to the work you're doing now with a diary of, of empath. And if you have any experiences with narcissistic abuse, 

[00:02:51] Keresse Thompson: Oh man, we can do a whole podcast episode on this.

[00:02:54] Okay. So, yeah. So when I was younger, I had, I had a pretty turbulent, traumatic childhood for the most part. I grew up in Chicago, born and raised, and I was raised by a. You know, I, I wanna say I don't wanna diagnose my mom. Right. But definitely some personality traits going on with her, whether it's borderline personality disorder, I would even say she's a narcissist, you know, or at least is pretty high on the spectrum because you know, a lot of narcissists, we, we have that word that's thrown around often, but it is a spectrum.

[00:03:29] There are levels to it. And my mom definitely fell on that spectrum. And she wasn't like a bad mom in terms of she provided clothes for me. I always had food in the house, but she was very turbulent. Her reactions to me, you know, typically like as a mom, your child falls and you're just like, oh my God, are you okay?

[00:03:51] And with my mom with little things like that, it was more of a reaction. Like you're terrible. You're just like, you're dad, you're this you're dad. And as a [00:04:00] child, I didn't understand why she was so angry at me. So my nervous system was continuously elevated in the home. And I associated that with love. My mom was never.

[00:04:13] She was never affectionate with me. She never showed emotion. So the only emotions that I saw in my mom was anger or she would sometimes be fine, but there was never a sense of lovingness or affection or things that you would think of when you think of a mother daughter relationship. My father was not in the picture at all.

[00:04:34] He, in fact, didn't come back around until I was about 11 or 12. And I remember when my mom found him, she just said, you're gonna go live with your dad. So there was multiple times within my childhood that my mom. Either left me with my grandfather and she moved with some guy that she was dating, or she would drop me off with a family member because I was quote unquote too much.

[00:04:56] And so I remember when I was about 12, 13, my life started shifting, I started getting more autonomy and I started making more decisions that. I had control over and those decisions became very turbulent for me. I was going to parties. I was experimenting with drugs. I was experimenting with sex at a very young age.

[00:05:19] I was around a lot of older men who took advantage of me as a, as a child, as a teenager. But the interesting thing is, is where I grew up. This was kind of the norm. I, a lot of the kids that I were, I was friends with their parents were kind of not around just like how my mom wasn't around. So it seemed to be that same traumatic cycle for even the people that were, that I was growing up with.

[00:05:46] So now you fast forward, I went through all of these traumatic things when I was about 17. My mom kicked me out of the house. And at that point I said, I'm done. I'm just gonna get my own place. And then I became very independent. So it's [00:06:00] like I had this switch of. I'm gonna do what I want because I can control my own life.

[00:06:05] And those decisions were very detrimental to my own health and wellbeing to now I'm kicked outta my mom's house. Now I actually do have autonomy. And it's interesting because that switch happened and I stopped. I stopped doing everything. I wasn't partying. I wasn't doing anything that was bad for me. I was working, I got my own place.

[00:06:24] I was doing really good. I was in a new relationship. My first relationship I was in love. His family was. And they really pushed me. It was the first time I had adults in my life that were telling me, like, you need to do something with your life. And so fast forward. And my boyfriend at the time ended up joining the military and I thought to myself, I'm like, I could do this.

[00:06:45] And that's what I did. I ended up joining the Marine Corps and I was in the Marines for four years. And of course that added a lot of structure to my life. And, um, I met a guy when I. In the military. And that ended up being my future husband and my, my daughter's father and little did I know was gonna be a very narcissistic and abusive relationship.

[00:07:06] And when we had our daughter that changed my life, my daughter was. Just such a light in my life. And for the first time I was thinking about someone else besides myself, that I had to take care of. And when this marriage started getting very turbulent, very manipulative, very abusive, physically, mentally, and emotionally, you know, you think why didn't you just leave?

[00:07:30] But when you're in this toxic cycle of manipulation of. Love bombing, and then going back to the de evaluation and then the abuse, it really does keep you trapped. And then especially if you add in finances and other things that they use to manipulate you, you find yourself in these cycles. But it was to a point where when he did, we got into an altercation and my daughter was I think, two or three at the time.

[00:07:57] And she witnessed it. And the [00:08:00] words that she said to me, We're just so profound and that's, that was it. She said it's okay. Mama. Don't cry. Dada hit you. It's okay. Don't cry, mama. And she's three. And so if a three year old is conceptualizing this and I wanna say she was maybe even two, she was talking very little, but she was able to conceptualize what happened and she's consoling me.

[00:08:21] I'm like, that's it. I, I have got to go because she's going to associate. Abuse with love, and I can't let that generational cycle continue. So at that point I decided to leave. And I think at that point too, I had to get really serious about taking care of my daughter. Because again, I have this turbulent relationship with my mother.

[00:08:43] Who's clearly not gonna support me. I have no other family. So it's either me or no. I have to be successful or nobody's gonna be there to pick up the pieces to take care of my kid. So I decided to continue with school. I got my master's in, um, clinical social work, and then I went on to work at the VA. So I still work there.

[00:09:05] Part-time and then things just kind of started happening. I got into, um, I I've been a psychic intuitive for. Four years. So I, I have that as my business, but I also have a podcast called diary of an empath. And part of the reason why I wanted to start that podcast is because a lot of my clients were coming to me.

[00:09:24] Your experiences and just the things that you've done. And you've talked to me about, and even your readings, or even the therapy we've done has been so helpful for me. You need to tell these stories, you need to talk about these subjects. And I just have so many subjects that I'm interested in in terms of being a better human.

[00:09:41] I wanted to reach people on a more macro level. And so my podcast was born and here I am now. And I think though, too, looking back at it, I think when we go through trauma and we go through difficult relationships at the time, I felt like my life was falling apart and I didn't [00:10:00] understand the path that I was on or why it was happening to me.

[00:10:02] But now I look back at it. I'm like, wow. If I didn't go through that, if I didn't go through that journey, if I didn't go through that growth, if I didn't have the self awareness. To learn the lessons that I needed to learn in order to not repeat those mistakes. I wouldn't be where I'm at today. So now you fast forward and, and here I am now and have a worldwide podcast working with clients, trying to help people as much as I can.

[00:10:23] And hopefully trying to keep narcissist away because even though as self-aware, as I am, I've come across a few of them still. So, you know, it's, it's not your fault. If you do, you just have to recognize the. Yeah, like we've 

[00:10:39] Raven Scott: talked about so much on this podcast. It's like just another layer of healing you needed to address, you know, you might be able to really, uh, have.

[00:10:48] Complete awareness and huge boundary against those grandiose narcissists, but it's like now you need to address the covert narcissists that kind of creep in because there's lots of different forms and ways and, and absolutely. And there's a spectrum. At what point in your life did you recognize that your mother was toxic?

[00:11:07] Because it seems pretty obvious when you look at it hindsight, but when you're in the thick of it and that's all, you know, is this kind of toxic form of love? um, and you, you were doing all the coping mechanisms with partying and experimenting with all that. Um, was it when she kicked you out or was it afterwards when you kind of removed yourself from her sphere?

[00:11:30] Keresse Thompson: You know, interestingly enough, I think I knew when it was happening. I, I would say probably when I was around nine or 10, around that age, maybe even 11, I knew something wasn't right. I don't know if it was like an inner knowing because I never really experienced what love. Truly was, but I knew what she was doing made me feel bad.

[00:11:50] I knew what she was doing, made me feel sad. And the interesting thing is, is I got to a point where I didn't wanna let her see me cry. [00:12:00] I didn't want her to think she got to me. And now as a 36 year old adult, When I see my mom, I go completely numb. There's no emotions with my mom. When I see her it's completely blank face.

[00:12:14] I don't show fear. I don't show happiness. It's literally like this defense mechanism of numbness that comes upon me that I can't even. Help. And I have a difficult time even looking at my mom in the eyes when I'm talking to her. And this is as a grown adult. Who's confident who's dealt with traumas and I still have a hard time doing that with her.

[00:12:35] And it's not because I fear her. It's just because I, I was so used to doing this from a child that this was how I comforted myself. So I think on some level I knew what she was doing was wrong, but I think more so I knew how she made me feel. Wasn't good. It didn't feel good. So I did what I had to do in order to comfort myself and this kind of trickled into my adulthood, but I think.

[00:13:00] Really the, the changing points to me when I started understanding why she was the way that she was really wasn't up until a couple years ago. And that change really happened when I started doing my own self exploration, my own healing, my own shadow work, and really trying to understand why I am the way that I am and what do I need to do to heal myself and to improve myself because at the end of the day, No one's responsible for your healing, except for you.

[00:13:27] It may not be your fault that certain things happen to you, but you it's a choice. You have to make a choice to actively participate in your own growth in your own healing process. And I had to make a choice and that was learning about myself in so many different ways to even put my ego to the side and say, okay, well, what choices are you making that is not helpful to your life?

[00:13:51] And when I started doing those things, I found myself being a little bit more compassionate towards my mom and understanding why she is the way that she is [00:14:00] because she went through so much trauma. But with that being said, Compassion is not equal to allowing negative behavior into my life. So. I can still be compassionate towards her, but I can still have really solid boundaries when it comes to my mom in my life.

[00:14:20] And she has now chosen to cut contact with me. She does not speak to me. I haven't spoken to my mom since Christmas of last year when we had an incident. And this is a, a perfect incident of even how narcissist behavior can come out. I had a surgery and literally hours out of surgery. My daughter has a, um, a fever and my mom is saying, she's got COVID, she's got COVID and I'm like, please just you're stressing me out.

[00:14:45] Please. Don't say that I'm literally coming outta surgery. I'm out of it. And my mom made it so much about her. You have no sympathy for me. You don't care that I had COVID and my mind is like, I got math problems over my head. I'm like, I don't even know what's happening right now because I feel like I'm gonna throw up.

[00:15:02] I just wanna go to sleep. I've I'm still under anesthesia. She got so upset that I didn't react the way that she wanted me to react towards her, which was sympathy that she stormed out of the house, slammed the door, sent me paragraphs and paragraphs over the course of the next few days. Not once. Did she say, how are you feeling?

[00:15:22] How did your surgery go? And I still invited her to Christmas. I said, you can come, but I need you to just put that to the side and I need you to let it. If you can't do that, then you cannot come. And I have not heard from her since. So that's just an example of how some of that behavior can come out. But I think to answer your question, I saw it at a younger age, but I really didn't understand it up until a few years ago.

[00:15:50] Yeah. I think 

[00:15:51] Raven Scott: that is a running theme. There must be something in the energy and in the cosmos or something, cuz it just seems like this running theme, like we all have so much of. [00:16:00] Unease. And we knew something was wrong as children. And then just a few years ago, which is probably also when all of this narcissist, you know, topics and really bringing it to light, came out into the surface and out into the public.

[00:16:15] Was we finally realizing like, oh man, like we really, we really have some stuff to work on. And yes, I think also it's it's um, as an empath, you subconsciously. Are always justifying their behavior and you put up with it and you put up with it and then comes a time. It's like enough is enough. And that's really interesting that she, you, you had said she cut contact with you because I had a similar experience.

[00:16:46] Um, not at all as traumatic as that, but it's just always like, I'm the one being left out. And then when I get upset and I. you know, wanna be included. Uh I'm somehow the one like throwing the tantrum, like they're kind of projecting that I'm like, I have a problem. I'm too sensitive. Mm-hmm um, when all I'm all I'm really expressing is I'd love to be included and invited.

[00:17:10] Like, can we find some accommodations all around, uh, find a middle ground mm-hmm and then it's just kind of like, Nope, silence, radio, silence. And then they'll always continue to make plans without me. And almost like have these covert gatherings. and then when they get together, there's, if I text randomly something, when I don't even know they're together, there's also radio silence, like, oh, you know, like don't, don't talk to her.

[00:17:33] She might find out it's like, so it's just so bizarre. 

[00:17:39] Keresse Thompson: Yeah, I think too with, with narcissist type of behavior. And again, it's a spectrum, but you know, when you're talking about somebody who's true, N P D or true narcissist, or even further on the spectrum, a lot of times too, it's, it's very much a victim mentality, you know, there's no, self-awareness that's going on there and anything you bring at them, [00:18:00] it's, it's almost like, well, no, It, it I'm gonna alter your reality to make it feel like it's your fault.

[00:18:05] And so if you find yourself in a situation where you feel like you wanna bang your head against the wall and you're like, am I going crazy here? No, you're, you're probably, there're probably. Switching it up on you, whether it's gas lighting or, you know, triangulation with other people or altering your reality in order to gain that power and that control back.

[00:18:26] And that's really what it, where it comes from is because people who go through traumatic childhoods, especially. Who end up as narcissist as adults, they have a very, very, very weak inner child. Very, very much so they're very insecure. And oftentimes they come off very confident and they allude this confidence.

[00:18:47] Right. But deep down inside, they're very deeply insecure. And so this might look like them saying, well, It's your fault or you are the reason why I do this behavior. You are the reason why I'm cheating. You are the reason why I go ghost for a week. And don't talk to you because of your behavior. When you may just be the one who is wanting some validation and wanting some love or wanting some understanding.

[00:19:15] You may end up finding yourself, questioning your own reality and wondering, well, is it me? Am I doing something? And that's just a tactic that they use to gain power and control. And unfortunately, oftentimes it works and it leaves us questioning our own thought process. And if you do this enough, that really is a cycle of abuse.

[00:19:35] Raven Scott: Yeah. And also they've been doing it since you were literally born out of the womb. Like as soon as you could start expressing yourself and speaking. So it is a part of your body. It is a part of your. Brain, you know, patterns. So it's, it's hard to break it, but once you see it and you can gain that support, what I've found is I need, you know, I've needed to go to therapy.

[00:19:58] I've needed to do my own [00:20:00] work internally. And then I have a really, um, supportive partner who can see right straight through the bullshit and he always calls it out. And it's been painful because I'm like, Nope, it's not come, please come into the circus with me. It's okay. It's not. And he's like, Nope, it is it's bullshit.

[00:20:15] And you know, it's like finally waking up, it takes a long time because you've been so conditioned that this is normal behavior when it's not. So I 

[00:20:24] Keresse Thompson: think too, when. When, when you're a child, you take my childhood for example, and where you, when you're used to a turbulent upbringing, you associate that with love.

[00:20:34] Your nervous system is continuously being triggered. So if you go through life as a child and adolescent with an activated nervous system and your nervous system is really that fight or flight, right. It's telling you, it's getting your body ready to say, okay. We either have to run. To survive or we're gonna stay in fight.

[00:20:55] This goes back to our primitive years as you know, primates and thousands of years ago. And this has trickled into where we're at now. It may look different in terms of our modern society, but our nervous system remains the same. So if you're going through this turbulent childhood with your nervous system, ready to either fight or flight, it's never at an equilibrium.

[00:21:17] This is what you're associating love with now. If this is the case. Me for example, I was always looking for cues on safety. So I was extra keen on body language, tones of voice mannerisms. How are they walking? How is she coming into the room? Is she walking softly? Is she walking hard? Are there things that are moving around?

[00:21:43] So when I'm listening and paying attention to all of these different things, now you do this for a lifetime. And now as an adult, I am what you call an empath. I continuously can scan the room. I'm looking at mannerisms, [00:22:00] I'm looking at body languages. I'm picking up on things that probably the average person is not able to really pick up on.

[00:22:07] I can tell someone's mood. I can tell your tone of voice. If you maybe had something bad happen to you. And some people will be like, like, that's weird. How did you know that? But you have to. Realize that as children, when we're picking up on all of these extra things and all of these cues and body languages and things that we're not taught to pick up on, but we're doing it in order to feel safe and you do this for a lifetime, it ends up being a skill and.

[00:22:33] Oftentimes as an empath, if you're not understanding it, it can feel very overwhelming. It can almost feel like a curse if you don't understand what your body's trying to tell you, but once you start really understanding, okay, this might not be my emotions that I'm picking up on. This might be somebody else, or am I picking up on something?

[00:22:54] And my body is reacting. Now my nervous system is reacting, but am I safe? I'm safe. I just might be picking up on someone who is unsafe. right. So you have to start paying attention to how your body is reacting around certain people. So if you find yourself around somebody who you're constantly feeling drained around, you feel a little uneasy about your intuition is telling you things are off.

[00:23:19] Those are the things that you have to start paying attention to because when your nervous system is being activated around, other people, remember it's used to being activated around toxicity and. Abuse of situations. And so when that's all, you know, growing up and now it's reacting as an adult, you have to pay attention to that.

[00:23:39] And on the flip side, you also need to pay attention when it's not reacting, because at times you might meet somebody who does not. Activate your nervous system. And they might come off very boring, very mundane. And you're like this be boring. You know, I'm like, uh, I, I met him. He's a nice guy, but I just, I just don't feel [00:24:00] that spark.

[00:24:00] The connection's not there. There's really nothing exciting, but in reality it might be because you're, you're not being activated. So again, if you're associating. Your nervous system activation with love. That's probably what you're used to looking for. So you have to get really serious about yourself and recognizing how your body reacts around certain people.

[00:24:21] And really getting serious about doing that work and nervous system regulation is a real thing. Nervous system healing is a very real thing. And once you start doing that, then you can start to like connect the dots and say, okay, is this my nervous system not being activated? Or is this really a compatibility issue?

[00:24:40] And when you start to learn that about yourself, it gets a lot easier to protect your energy, to keep boundaries and to then invite in people. Who might actually be healthy for you, but it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of insight, but, and I'm by, and I wanna point out too, that I'm by no means saying.

[00:24:57] Being an empath is not also very spiritual because I think that we are a very small part of the population that's very intuitive and much higher, I think, than the average person. And I do think there is a spiritual component to that, but, you know, I, I'm also a very clinical just because I'm, I'm a mental health clinician too.

[00:25:18] I do think that our childhood very much affects it, but I'm very spiritual as well. And I know that. I've oftentimes been very psychic and I've known things without having any idea. And maybe that's me picking up on the vibrations. Maybe that's me picking up on the energy, whatever it is, you just have to learn more about yourself and then it makes it so much easier to navigate relationships moving forward.

[00:25:40] Mm-hmm 

[00:25:41] Raven Scott: I love that. Yeah. I was everything that kept coming up when you were talking was like this addiction to the highs and lows. You're addicted to that fight or flight because you're conditioned to think it's normal and you. To love and acceptance. But what I've found is that it's just an addiction.

[00:25:58] It is like just this, [00:26:00] it's a skewed view of what love is, and it's not really unconditional love or true love. It's conditional love that. You've just learned. You think that's love is love. That's love, but it's not healthy. Yeah. And I've, I've had to really have my fair share of like, I hated the lows enough to be able to really focus in on not chasing after the highs, because I would lose friends.

[00:26:26] You know, I didn't, I would find myself alone because of my own choices of chasing the highs and lows. I was chasing all of the wrong people. And like you said, once you start doing all of that inner. Then you get to start to attract the healthy people that you feel in, in line with who actually, you know, cultivate healthier relationships with you and communicate with you on a regular basis versus like, A whole bunch of communicating and then ignoring you for a while, you know, 

[00:26:56] Keresse Thompson: that's right.

[00:26:57] And the brain is very powerful too. So when you talk about addiction, that's a great point. So addiction let's just think about drugs when you're doing cocaine. When you're doing drugs, your brain is releasing neurotransmitters, dopamine, sometimes serotonin. When you're in love, your brain is releasing oxytocin.

[00:27:13] Oftentimes when you're in a traumatic situation, especially when it's very toxic, hot and cold. When things are loving and you're going through that quote, unquote love bombing cycle, where they're pouring you with love and affection, because this is what they did in the beginning. They had to reel you.

[00:27:28] Some way, right? You didn't just magically fall into an abusive narcissistic relationship and been like, that's my guy, he's the one I'm gonna marry. like, no, like it, it, it was a cycle. It started off amazing. Right. And that's how they get you in. So. When you're going through this phase, this love bombing, and they're showering you with all of these things.

[00:27:48] Your brain is releasing oxytocin. Remember, this is what comes out in the womb. When you're in your mother's womb, you associate with comfort and love serotonin. I'm so happy. Oh my gosh. I love this situation. [00:28:00] Dopamine is that, that addiction. I want this feeling over and over again. It feels so good. I'm being rewarded with this feeling.

[00:28:07] Now, when you go into the de evaluation phase, when they're tearing you down and they're pushing you away and they're telling you that you're terrible, or that you're nothing, then they're, you're, they're taking all of these things away. And now you don't have these feelings that you were having before, but then you start to drift off or maybe you say, I'm done, I'm gonna leave.

[00:28:27] And then they start love bombing you again. And now it's like a flood of these neurotransmitters that are coming back and it feels good. It is an addiction. The way that it shows up in the brain is just like, as if you were addicted to cocaine or crack or heroin, of course, it's not gonna physically manifest that way, but in the brain, it looks exactly the same.

[00:28:49] Studies have shown. If you look at studies on what our brain looks like in toxic situations or abusive situations versus what they look like on drugs, a lot of it is manifested exactly the same. Our brains don't really know any different. It's not wired any different to know this situation from this situation.

[00:29:07] If our nervous system is activated, our brain's gonna react. If we are. Getting showered with love and attention. These neurotransmitters are gonna come out. And if that's what you've been looking for, because you had a lack of that in your childhood, of course, it's gonna feel good when you get it. And then it's like this push and pull.

[00:29:25] So you have to get really serious about yourself and understand that. But if you're in a situation where. You're like, I don't know what's wrong with me that I keep going back. I want you to know that there really is more to it. Like your brain really doesn't know any better and it absolutely 100% is an addiction.

[00:29:46] Another thing I wanna touch on that you mentioned was the type of people that you attract. And I think you're absolutely right with that. So if you picture yourself in a room and you have a room full of toxic [00:30:00] negative people, The door can be wide open and you can have the healthiest person walk by.

[00:30:05] There's no room left. You're not creating space for anybody healthy to walk into your life. If your life is full of a room of unhealthy, toxic negative. Situations and people, you have to make room for that. And that's a choice. And I am, I'm not talking about abusive situations because those situations were, I'm gonna exclude because those are not always a choice.

[00:30:29] There's so many more variables. However, keeping boundaries, allowing healthy people into your life, recognizing when they're not healthy for you. And making the difficult decision to end the situation or to keep boundaries or walk away. I always recommend doing that because the law of attraction is very real.

[00:30:49] And when you are on a vibration of attracting negativity and toxicity in your life, you're going to attract more of that. And MPAs are often extremely compassionate. We want to understand people. And we often do understand because we have been through trauma ourself, but it manifests different with us than it did for them, for whatever reason.

[00:31:12] And we oftentimes try to understand them so much that we can look past certain things. You can't do that. because there are certain people that you can have compassion for, but you still have to say, I'm sorry, I can't allow you into my life. Or I have to keep you on this very outer circle. Like my mom, I moved her from the inner circle to now she's on the outer circle because that's where I have to keep her.

[00:31:35] I'm not ready to remove her, but she's on that outer line. So now, instead of seeing her every day, Maybe I go to see her every month or maybe now it's just dinner. I mean, obviously she's not talking to me, but if she was, that's what it would be, it would be once a month, it would be here and there. I'm not gonna see you every day because I can't have that negativity in my life.

[00:31:58] So I made room [00:32:00] for those healthy people to come into my life because I had to remove all the, all the unhealthy people, but that took a lot of insight, a lot of years and a lot of work, but it is doable. 

[00:32:12] Raven Scott: Absolutely doable. I can, I can relate 100%. I've been to the, the worst, lowest point in my life where I was groveling on my knees, chasing that toxic person, chasing that, you know, like you said, like that, that addictive high for that love back from them.

[00:32:30] And then finding out, trying to do that even just last year with my own parents in a different kind of set, but literally emotionally I was on my knees, begging them for time. They just scurried away. And I, and I had this huge, huge body awakening of, oh my God. Like, this is exactly what I was doing in my very obvious, abusive, romantic relationship and holy crap, like, and I'm still doing it, like, stop that.

[00:32:58] stop it, make those boundaries stop chasing. But, uh, yeah, it is, it is a lifelong journey to erase that, to rewrite those neurons and. Continue to build your self-esteem and self-worth, 

[00:33:11] Keresse Thompson: it's hard. It's not easy, especially when you're dealing with people you're related to. And I get that there are situations and there's probably people listening like, well, what do I do if I have kids, what do I do?

[00:33:22] If you know, there are people that I'm related to, and I have to have this contact. I'm not ready to cut contact and that's fine. You don't necessarily have to cut contact, but again, it's boundaries. It's having, it's moving someone from like the inner circle to the outer circle. Right. So if you have kids with someone.

[00:33:38] Keep good boundaries, meaning you don't, they're gonna try to feed you stuff to see if you're still gonna react. Literally they want supply, narcissists need supply for their own manipulation for their own. They're really insecure. They need to feel secure and that's how they get it. So you [00:34:00] cannot react if you have child.

[00:34:02] If you have kids with someone or you have a child with someone. Gray rock method and what the gray rock method is, is literally being. As gray and boring as a rock, you don't react. I tell people and my clients, especially when you're dealing with a narcissist, treat them like a coworker. You're always gonna have that one coworker who you just can't stand.

[00:34:22] You're like, damn. I cannot stand Karen. She is just such a bitch. You know, whatever it is, but you have to be professional. You have to be professional with her, right? So per your last email that, you know, whatever it is. So that's how you have to speak to them. You have to be. So boring that they eventually will stop trying to get the supply from you.

[00:34:45] They're gonna find it from somewhere and if they can't get it from you, they're gonna move on to the next person. So only talk to them about the kids. If there is any conversation that needs to be had, it should only be had with the children. Another tip that I actually got from somebody who was on my show, Megan Doherty.

[00:35:03] She's amazing. She. Often talks about different apps that you can use that these court systems recommend as well. I can't remember the names of the apps as well. Maybe we can link them in the podcast notes, but there are apps that you can use that if you cannot. Communicate effectively with your spouse.

[00:35:22] You can communicate through this app. You can even schedule visitations through this app. And sometimes written form is necessary, especially if it was a very abusive situation or if you don't feel comfortable communicating with that person, but you have to, that could also be a really good way, but if you're dealing with maybe a parent who is a narcissist, or maybe just on the spectrum of, of being a narcissist, just keeping those boundaries to ask yourself, okay, is.

[00:35:50] Effective for me, is this serving my highest good. If the answer is no, there's nothing in a rule book that says that you have to have a relationship with a parent [00:36:00] just because that you're related. So maybe now you only see them when it's a holiday. Maybe you only see them when there's other people around.

[00:36:08] And. It's a little bit more tolerable to be around them. When you have other family around, maybe you only see them once a month, you have to keep those boundaries. And again, you'd gotta do what's best for you and what's gonna serve your own highest good because your mental health at the end of the day is always number one.

[00:36:25] But I do understand that sometimes it's just not that easy to just be like, Nope, just cut. 'em out block. And we're in this blocking society. And yeah, that sounds great in a perfect world, but unfortunately, some people are just not ready for that. They're not ready for. So you can take steps. If you have to turn off your phone between certain times and say, you know, This is my time.

[00:36:46] I'm not gonna deal with this rant right now, or maybe it's changing the way you communicate to say, Hey, I'm not in a space. I can talk right now when you calm down I'm and you wanna talk to me? I'm here. Even changing dialogues can make a huge difference. So if you're not ready to cut somebody out, or maybe you don't want to that's okay.

[00:37:04] But you can do things starting today to just be on the track of protecting your own energy a little bit better. 

[00:37:11] Raven Scott: Yes. So much came up for me there. Right before you had mentioned the app, which we'll definitely find that app and link in the show notes. I was thinking you have to think anything you say or do can be held against you in the court of law.

[00:37:25] So always just contact them like you're preparing and like you're, you're set to have it documented. You know, I actually have a document, everything in a text message, it can be documented for court. So make sure you're not being pulled into the drama or saying mean things back, cuz they will use it against you.

[00:37:45] So I love that you brought that up. You have to think almost like. An attorney or like a, a, a judge when you're interacting with them and it's for your sanity too. Cause then you don't have to be pulled into the drama. 

[00:37:58] Keresse Thompson: I found for me when I [00:38:00] stopped reacting is when my healing journey began. I stopped feeding into the drama.

[00:38:07] I stopped feeding into the arguments and when I stopped doing that, I gained my control back. And I think that's where I started to see the shift happen. Yeah. 

[00:38:17] Raven Scott: Because when you're pulled in, you are being just as toxic as they are, even though you don't want to. And you think that you are right and you think that they're the ones, you know, hurting you and abusing you when you're reacting, you're meeting them on that same energetic level, which is not where you wanna be.

[00:38:34] There's been so many great tips here. Um, I think we have a lot to, um, learn from this conversation. A lot of relating. And absolutely a lot of growth to be had. And like we had mentioned, this is a lifelong process. We are peeling away, one layout, a time of the onion, and this is something that is ancestral.

[00:38:55] This is systemic. This isn't like, oh, just happened last, you know, decade or so this is a long, long time coming of peeling away. This narcissistic behaviors and toxic interactions with each other. Is there any final thoughts you have, um, any tips, um, for those who are feeling like they are in the fog of trying to figure out how to put up these boundaries or even be awakened to the fact that they're from their childhood, they are still living out some of these toxic patterns.

[00:39:29] Keresse Thompson: Yeah, I think firstly, you're not alone. You are validated. I validate your emotions. I've been through it myself. And a lot of people who are just getting to know me are just listening to my podcast. They're like, wow. I, I wouldn't think that someone like you. Would be in those situations. And when I hear that and I'm like, listen, anyone can be in that situation, you could be the smartest, most beautiful, insightful person, and still find yourself [00:40:00] in a narcissistic situation.

[00:40:02] Again, nobody expects to go into these things. Like we don't plan on it, right. Narcissists are extremely charming in the. But you gotta recognize the signs that's firstly. So when you meet somebody, if you are single and you're going through the dating realm, let's say, or maybe even just someone in your life, if someone comes to you and it's only been 1, 2, 3 weeks, and they're saying.

[00:40:26] I'm gonna take you here, future faking all of these amazing things you're gonna do. And you're my soul made. And you're the, let me tell you something, you don't know that person, they don't know you. Nobody is gonna say, I love you within one week now. Maybe there is been some situations where they're not a narcissist and they truly do have these like amazing feelings.

[00:40:47] But most of the time, if someone's coming at you that hard. That's a red flag. You need to really take a step back and take your time. And if you are somebody who has been in narcissistic abusive situations in the past, you have to take your time to get to know someone. I don't care how good looking they are.

[00:41:06] How charming they are, how amazing it feels to be around them. You have to force yourself, sit your butt down and just calm down female, like, you know, or male, female, whatever it is, you need to put the phone, put the phone down and literally just take your time. Because when you get to know somebody real healthy relationships take time, and that's when you really start to see someone's true colors because oftentimes narcissists.

[00:41:35] Relationships like a phone, right? When you need your phone, you pick it up. When you don't need your phone, you put it down. When it breaks, you get a new one. Sometimes you keep your old phones and every once in a while you might pull that old phone out just to see if it still works. They literally view relationships as a utility, so they will try to come back.[00:42:00] 

[00:42:00] They may even put you down when they don't need you. So you have to give things time to see what that person's true intentions are. So I think for anybody who is maybe going through the relationship or dating phase right now, take your time. Get real with yourself about what you want in a partner, look out for how you're feeling around certain people is your nervous system being activated.

[00:42:24] Does this person drain me? Is there a lot of highs and lows with this person? All of these red flags are usually there in the beginning. We just often are so compassionate that we ignore them. Don't ignore the red flags. And if you're in a situation right now and you're listening, and this is resonating with you and you're thinking, oh shit, like I think my spouse or my partner, or my parent as a narcissist, first of all, you have to get clear on, are you ready to leave?

[00:42:50] Is it safe to leave? And if it's not safe, get a safety plan in place, start planning your exit because oftentimes when you try to exit, that's when that's, when it's the most dangerous. So you need to make sure that you have a really safe exit strategy. Whether it's keeping clothes at someone else's house saying, Hey, if I call you twice and I don't, you don't hear back call the police.

[00:43:11] And if you can get out, then you leave. If you decide that I'm not ready to have this person out again. Keeping boundaries. So I just want you guys to know that you're not alone. If you're not ready, there's no judgment. I think that anybody can be in this situation, but there are steps that you can take today to make changes.

[00:43:32] And if you're just not ready at all, you're just going through this. And you're like, damn, that was my past. What do I do now? I don't really wanna date, but I don't know how to change myself again, as you go through self awareness and you go through your healing journey and. Recognize what lessons you need to learn and what you can do differently.

[00:43:51] Moving forward. That's when the change is gonna happen. And again, letting go of that control of that need to be right, [00:44:00] that need to argue that need to converse in those conversations or those situations that no longer serve you and get comfortable with being alone, like get comfortable. Allowing those people to make their exit because sometimes it will feel lonely, but I promise you, even if it doesn't happen right away, when you allow those people to make their exit, you're gonna allow space for healthier people to now come into your life and match the vibration that you're on.

[00:44:29] So hang in there. It's gonna get better. You're listening to this podcast right now, so that in itself, that's a step. So congratulations on your new journey. Beautiful. 

[00:44:42] Raven Scott: Yes. Thank you so much car for being here and sharing all of your profound wisdom and your experiences with us. I really appreciate that.

[00:44:52] Um, we will have all of your links for where people can follow you and listen to your podcast in the show notes at diary of an impath. 

[00:45:02] Keresse Thompson: Thank you so much for having me and for your time and your energy. It was an absolute pleasure. And 

[00:45:07] Raven Scott: remember everybody keep your unique light shining. If you are new and are enjoying this podcast.

[00:45:14] Or are an avid listener and have yet to rate and review this podcast. 

[00:45:18] Raven Scott: Help me help others. Rate 

[00:45:21] And leave a positive review. You can tune into the podcast. Every Tuesdays and Thursdays, wherever you stream your favorite podcasts.

[00:45:31] Don't forget to scroll up. And grab all the links to the free gifts. (and to book your coaching sessions) And our guests today in the show notes. And thank you for listening to the empath and the narcissist podcast.