Unhappy in your relationship?

“I think that the first step is the education, because that’s going to give you the confidence that you’re not crazy.” – Jessica Knight [26:26]

-Jessica Knight @emotionalabusecoach Ep 30

Learn effective ways for dealing with narcissists, including how you can break up with them properly. Expert advice shared in this episode!

Breaking up with a narcissist can be difficult and emotionally draining. They may not take you seriously or make you feel like you are wrong, so it is important to come prepared with the right attitude and stay firm in your decision. This guide provides tips on how to break up with a narcissistic partner while protecting your own mental health and safety.

Listen on Apple/Spotify + Rate and Review

Our guest today, Jessica Knight: Jessica Knight, MA, CPCC, NICC, is a Certified Life Coach through the Coaches Training Institute (CTI). @emotionalabusecoach

Empath & The Narcissist Book : and on Audible

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Submit your question on narcissist, spirituality, or meditation. For future episodes.

Key Moments:

Here are some key moments:

• Anxious Attachment style / Codependency [11:14]
• Being with the Narcissist is miserable [17:26]
• Tips on How to Break up with a Narcissist [25:52]
• How to Gain Financial Freedom [31:00]
• When you are your lowest [35:58] “Remember who you were before all of this. “

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How to Break up with a Narcissist

Breaking up with a narcissist can be difficult and emotionally draining. They may not take you seriously or make you feel like you are wrong, so it is important to come prepared with the right attitude and stay firm in your decision. This guide provides tips on how to break up with a narcissistic partner while protecting your own mental health and safety.

Establish firm boundaries.

It is essential to establish clear boundaries when it comes to breaking up with a narcissist. You need to set clear limits on what you can and cannot tolerate from them. This will help you stick to your decision and keep them from trying to manipulate or guilt-trip you into staying in the relationship. Be prepared to answer questions in a firm yet respectful manner.

 “The number one thing is remembering who you are and were before the narcissist.”

33:32

Understand the repercussions you may experience from a narcissist. 

Before taking any action to break up with a narcissist, it is important to be aware of the potential repercussions. Narcissists use manipulation and guilt-tripping to ensure that their needs are met. This could mean that they will go to extreme lengths to get what they want or try to make you feel guilty for leaving. In turn, this could cause you to feel resentment or even hatred for yourself as well as the other person. Be mindful of how you approach the situation and take extra precautions if necessary.

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Build up courage to break away. 

When it comes to a relationship with a narcissist it can be difficult to find the courage to break away. It’s important to remind yourself why you want to leave and the benefits of doing so. Take time to reflect on why you feel like you need to end things, how they have made you feel bad or uneasy and make sure that this is indeed the best option for everybody involved — including yourself. Writing down all of these things can help develop your courage and understanding of why it has become necessary for you to make this decision for you own mental health and wellbeing.

Shut them out emotionally without hostility and confrontation. 

Once you have made the decision to end the relationship it is best to do so without engaging in an emotional confrontation or argument. Even if they are naturally confrontational, it’s important to prepare yourself beforehand. Don’t allow them to ‘lock you into’ these heated conversations that leave you drained, angry and upset. Remain calm and collected, explain your feelings clearly and gently remind them of the importance in respecting your decision as this is a good step for both of you in moving forward independently.

Stand your ground and remain confident in your decision to end it all for good this time!

Narcissists often try to make you doubt yourself, especially in the face of uncomfortable decisions. They may try to goad you into reconsidering or even becoming angry and demanding if they don’t get what they want. It’s important in these cases however to remember that you are the one in control of the situation and that your emotions should not be swayed by their manipulative tactics. Stand firm, maintain your composure and remain confident that this is the right decision for both of you. With time, distance, and appropriate boundaries in place, both parties stand a better chance of healing from this breakup.

About our guest

Jessica Knight, MA, CPCC, NICC, is a Certified Life Coach through the Coaches Training Institute (CTI).

After receiving her certification in 2016, Jessica has helped women heal through Millennial Life Crisis and toxic relationship patterns. After navigating through her own divorce and single mommy-hood, Jessica received training in Narcissistic and Emotional Abuse from the Post Traumatic Growth Academy and is a Certified Narcissistic Abuse Specialist. Jessica works with clients virtually and serves women all around the world.

 Tune into her podcast Relationship Recovery Podcast

emotionalabusecoach.com 

Her Programs: https://jessicaknight.thinkific.com/

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Transcript

30.How to Consciously Breakup with a Narcissist?

Raven: Welcome to the Empath and the Narcissist podcast, where you regain your sparkle back after narcissistic abuse. I am your host Raven Scott, 

a trauma informed spiritual mentor, certified meditation teacher, and human design expert. I’m empowering empaths three times a week in recovery and healing from narcissistic abuse, childhood trauma through human design, self-care, mindfulness advice, and expert interviews. This is season five

Episode 30, how to Consciously Break Up With a Narcissist. With our guest today, Jessica Knight.

Jessica: if I had somebody when I was married, say this is what’s going on.

Like and here are the signs, like healthy relationships will not leave you. Driving around the block and parking, listening to an audiobook, just because that’s the only time you’re gonna get peace. , if somebody had said , that’s a, that is not good, , then , my ears would’ve perked up a bit because , I know what abuse is.

I went through it. And so when I started noticing the threads, but having such a strong trauma bond and not feeling like I could leave, I’d put myself so far deep into , the knowledge of it. I know that it can be hard to disconnect. and break free from the narcissist. And then on top of it, as a highly sensitive person, how do you do it consciously without deepening your own soul and heart and getting into the stuck patterns of vengeance and all of that. 

Raven: Jessica has her MA, CPCC, NICC, and is a certified life coach through the Coaches Training Institute and a fellow narcissist survivor. He.

Jessica’s received training in narcissistic and emotional abuse from the Post-Traumatic Growth Academy and is a certified narcissistic abuse specialist. Jessica works with clients virtually and serves women all over the world, and you can find her on Instagram at Emotional Abuse Coach.

Her website is emotional abuse coach.com.

And we talked about that and more. We talked about the different attachment styles and more of like powering tips for you on how to break up from the narciss.

She knows just as well as I do that their tactics can be extremely infuriating, painful soul sucking, and really understanding the level of emotional abuse in a relationship is important. So I just wanted to read to you a quote from one of her posts on Instagram. , she makes some beautiful content here, and even on TikTok, she says, stop asking why they keep doing.

And start asking why you keep allowing it. And this is it. She’s helping you just as I am, regaining your power back to stop believing those lies. So without further ado, let’s dive into this convers.

Hello, Jessica, how are you today?

Jessica: Hi. I am good. Thank you so much for having me today,

Raven: Yeah, thank you for being here and sharing your experience and your expertise on , how to break up with a Narcissist.

Jessica: Yeah. Such a complex topic, but I’m happy to be here.

Raven: It is. It also, I mean, we don’t mean to giggle, but I think when you’re on the other side you’re like, yes, we, so whoever needs to hear this, it’s going to be for your benefit. So we’re excited in giggling, but we also know, it’s ironic that we know it’s not easy.

Jessica: Yeah, it’s not, it’s not easy. And I think that like now I can bring humor into it, if I reflect and if I bring, topics up to people. But when I was in it, I absolutely did not have any humor at all. So just kind of looking back and, being able to kind of see where I was and what I’ve learned is, is it’s like, all right, I’m just not that person anymore.

Who was in that relationship?

Raven: Yeah. And that’s so inspiring because those who are really struggling right now feel like they’re never gonna laugh about this. Like, this is

the worst thing ever, right? When we’ve both been there.

Jessica: Yeah.

Raven: Yes. So there is hope, there is laughter. One day you will get there and we’re helping you a little bit by little bit with all these, these episodes. So before we kind of hear a bit about your story, I wanted to ask you what is the most difficult part of leaving the narcissist? And that might also entail a bit you can weave in your story if you like, as.

Jessica: I think there’s a lot of difficult parts. I think. . I think for everybody it’s different because it all probably relates to, your upbringing, your financial situation, your if there’s children involved. And so I’ll answer it based on something that I noticed come up across the board. Because it is much harder, I think when there are, when there are kids or a child. But I think one of the biggest things is the, is the blame the self. Blame the self. It’s either I got myself here or what if I’m seeing it wrong or, but he’s so nice to this person. I’m saying he, cuz it was a he in my story. But obviously this can go both ways and I’ll probably use he throughout the episode.

And . It’s that inner, that inner dialogue, that inner blame that keeps us in this little cycle over and over again. Because if you’re with a narcissist, you’re constantly going through the cycle of abuse. You’re going from, being in this honeymoon stage for five minutes to five months, five years, and then goes right back to tensions rising right back.

And I know for me it would happen throughout a day. Sometimes it would happen in longer stretches. And I always thought I was. and so the blame, the self blame that I just need to get over this. I just need to internalize it was def is definitely, I think, comes up across the board. And obviously when there’s kids involved, it turns into, well, what am I doing to the kid?

Like, I should just stay, I should stay into this certain age. But I always encourage my clients to think about the parent that. Are showing up as, especially if they’re in that, that, that cycle. So that, that is, I think one of the, the top things is blame, but like I said, I think there’s a lot of reasons that it’s really, really difficult.

Raven: Mm-hmm. , I, yeah, I love that you point that out, because what that really does, that blame, right? You take on the blame from the narcissist, you then blame yourself, and then that has you spiral into shame, which is like the lowest emotional vibration, which then kind of makes you feel lost. Stuck. Like what’s the point?

And that, that’s a really dangerous place to be.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah.

Raven: Now in that. So, I mean, let’s maybe backtrack. How did we get here in the first place? Are there certain. Things that happen. I know ev there’s complexity. Every single person has a different story , but there, there must be a common thread of how did we get stuck with a narcissist in the first place.

Jessica: Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, I think it could honestly happen to anyone. I think that the research used to show that you had to have some history of abuse or neglect or abandonment to, to be attracted to that kind of personality. But I think that just based on the the ways in which a narciss goes.

getting you, is that it? It could happen to literally anybody. And I’ve seen that with a lot of people. Like I certainly work with people that don’t have , abuse in their background, and they’re like, how did I get here? They’re like, I came from a loving home and like my parents are so supportive and, but and I, so I don’t, I think it’s a little bit less of what’s going on for us.

I mean, I’m sure there’s a part of us that feels unloved and that feels like we, that we want this to be in a relationship. But I also think that the narcissist and like narcissist by design, are sort of designed to get us hooked on something that doesn’t exist. So it’s like being sold, something at the store that is supposed to do this thing and it doesn’t, right?

So it’s like, okay, this pill is gonna keep you at exactly the size that you wanna be, and you’re not gonna have to work out, and your muscles are gonna feel tight and te like, it’s like it’s the impossible. And you’re like, okay, yeah, I want that. And they’re like, fine, just take it for every three months, , every day, three months.

And then it just, . They’re like, oh yeah. It just doesn’t, it doesn’t work anymore after that, it’s , like once the mask falls off and that perfect person who wanted to show up for you, who wanted to be there for you, who wanted to, have every conversation, wanted to do all the things, like narcissists are great at the beginning of relationship.

They really are. They, they will charm all that your friends, and then they can’t keep that on for so long. I think I read somewhere it takes 90. to really get to know someone. And usually it’s around that time that we start to see who this person is. But we’ve just spent three months seeing this other person that we actually really liked and that like it.

I know for me I always saw it as like, that’s who I know they can be.

Raven: Right.

Jessica: And so then I spent the rest of the relationship trying to get them back to that, which it was fake in the first place.

Raven: Yeah. That’s the thing is we believe it’s really truly them. The authentic person was the person in the beginning, but no, that was just the, the acting that was just the facade. To kind of hook you in. And as you were talking, I was thinking it’s not like a normal dating scenario either with a narcissist because they go deep end immediately, so

Jessica: go deep and they rush in and some, and a lot of times they, they seem really interested in you at the beginning.

Raven: Yeah.

Jessica: that goes away. But they, they seem so interested in you and your story and what you’re doing, and like, you’re like, oh my God, he appreciates that I, I do this and like, he’s telling me how great I am and like how amazing it is that I do this.

And then that obviously goes away in time with a narcissist.

Raven: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it’s not genuine. They’re trying to get something out of that exchange of listening to you.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah.

Before we dive into our commercial break, I wanted to share another amazing quote. That. Jessica posted on instagram

Raven: And if you visit her Instagram page, you’ll see this beautiful image of holding on to a, a strand of rope, wrapped her on the wrist. The hand is red and in pain and the letting go, and then the letting go hand sometimes holding.

There’s more damage than letting go.

So in talking about the difficulty, Are there like different attachment styles that they, and do they know this? I wonder if like, do they know the different

Jessica: I think, I mean, so every once in a while I’ll be in a conversation with a friend and I’ll bring up an attachment style and they look at me like I have seven heads, and I’m just like, do you know what they are? And so if we, they’re. There’s more than three, but the three that I, that are like, I guess well known, are anxious, avoidant, insecure.

And so a lot of times I actually think that a narciss is, most likely they come off as avoidant, but what they really are is anxious and they’re nowhere near secure. And what I mean by that is that the anxious person, I mean, and so, and the person dating the narciss is also anxious, so, basically, and with anxious attachment style, like you’re, it, it can, it can feel kind of like codependency, like you’re almost regulating yourself off of their attachments or of like how attached you are to them.

So if they don’t call you, they don’t respond. Like you’re, you’re constantly looking for that next validation and it’s, it’s constant and you are not proud of it, but you know it’s happening. Right. And this could also leave people to stay is because they’re like, look at me, I’m crazy. narcissist by design will act really avoidant until you act avoidant.

So the reason I say that they also have anxious attachment is because they’re so rooted in shame. Like we know now that narcissism comes from severe shame that they can’t even look at or even know that’s there a lot of the time. And I think that they’re actually very anxious. They come off as very avoidant, very like, I don’t care.

You’re called too much, you’re doing this too much. But once you flip the. . They act like a textbook anxious person, and they actually, I had a therapist once that said they need to move from avoidance in. Like they have to move out of that fake avoidance through their anxiety to actually ever become secure.

I remember hearing that feeling like, all right, they’re never gonna get there, , it was like that. Okay, they’re never gonna get there. But it’s like, I think, so when we think about attachment styles and if, if somebody was to listen to this and then go read about theirs, I would say do it with a lot of grace for yourself.

That, there’s a lot of, a lot of aspects in the cycle of abuse with the narcissist that are gonna trigger that anxious attachment style for you, but also realize that this person that’s probably coming off, like they don’t care. They do. That’s just part of the mask that’s on.

Raven: Hmm. Yeah. So the, their avoidance style that they’re using, that tactic, the. Is a tactic. It’s not an actual, possibly even attachment. It’s just like, this is how I know I can push your buttons by ignoring you cuz I know that you need me. It’s like they know that once you’re a codependent, you need them emotionally.

It’s totally a game. Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Like. . I’ve worked with a lot of clients that they’ve pulled back a little bit, right? So once you start seeing the signs, and educating yourself, most people start to try and set boundaries, which is incredibly difficult with an abuser. But they start to try. And then that, that, that’s why the abuser or the narcissist reacts so much, is because like now you’re, you’re setting a healthy boundary, which they’re going to perceive as avoidance.

Now they’re reacting.

Raven: Hmm. Which triggers their anxiety and their abandonment issues and not being able to control you and all this stuff.

Jessica: Right, right.

Raven: Yeah. Okay. That makes complete sense on my end as far as my experience and and hearing other people too. Yeah. Thank you for that. What, how did you get into this work? What is your story?

Jessica: My story is complicated. So I am one of the people that grew up in an abusive home. So I, I grew up in a physically and emotionally abusive home. Like, I basically was taught to not value myself. Like anytime I felt good about myself, I was told not to, like, and a lot of physical abuse, and I left.

When I was 16 and then basically was on like my survival mode for a very long time, and I ended up marrying somebody that I went to high school with that I reconnected with. So it’s not like we were like high school sweethearts or something, but he was like the most popular kid in school. Like he was the class president, he was the, he was in my mind, this amazing person.

I was like, why is he talking to me? Why is he messaging me? And. And then, but, and I was like, the class reject pretty much because I just, I hated my life and I hated my family and I wanted to get out. And so when he started messaging me, I had him writing on a pedestal. He didn’t have to put himself there.

He was already there. We connected and then I learned that he was an alcoholic. I learned that he had a cocaine issue at one point. He didn’t graduate high school. I mean not high school, college, and I just. . I was like, okay. Just like, like, just . Let me just put these things aside and like it’s still a good person and like this.

And again, I think I went right into seeing his potential. And so we ended up ha like getting into a relationship and then we ended up getting married. But throughout the, throughout the, even the engagement, I started hearing all these things or all these things started happening where he would like, Alcohol or we’d get into fights and like they would never be resolved.

Or like he would say like, all I want to do is help you and I wanna be there for you. But then he would constantly be getting mad at me for like little things or I just never felt like I was never free, you know? And I wasn’t an alcoholic and I was having a really hard time with. having to be sober all the time around him, when at times I did wanna have a glass, a glass of wine.

Like it wasn’t, it just felt very controlled. And then the relapses kept happening and I kept wanting to get out and I kept getting a promise. And so I didn’t really start to put together the narcissism threads until after we. Our child. And so I got pregnant as a surprise and, but I was fine with it because I wanted her and he relapsed within a month.

And so I said to myself, I want out, like I want out, I’m done. This is like relapse number 15. And I, him and others convinced me to stay cuz it was a month after the wedding and I didn’t want to, and I did, but I took off the blinders and so, Basically from that point until I would say May of the next year, my daughter was born in November.

It was miserable. Like I remember there was this one day, it was cold. and I, I left and took her for a walk and think she was like two months old or something. And I remember purposely buying a journal and like, cuz I couldn’t bring one out, he would’ve seen it. And I bought a pen at c v s and found a space to, in c v s, to sit and write.

And I wrote, I’m writing the, and I wrote until she started to cry. And when I look back now with all the knowledge that I have, I can. how scared I was, but also how confused I was and like, I think the first line said something like, I’ve been miserable for a long time and that, so I ended up getting into therapy, or putting myself into therapy and basically trying to unpack what was going on.

And she was giving me strategies to try and help like the relationship, like we ended up getting into couples therapy. We. At that point, I don’t think we were using babysitters and stuff yet, but we were trying to think about like time together and we moved and we went on a trip and I, like, I kept just feeling like I can’t do this anymore.

Like the, my child wasn’t even eight months old and I wanted, I was like, I, I, I’m, I’m so done now. And I, like, I kept and I kept telling him that, like I kept saying, I’m done, I’m done, I’m done. And nothing changed. And I was be like, it was at the point, I was so exhausted. And I was so tired, and I was the only one waking up in the middle of the night for my daughter.

And then he, I remember him saying like, why don’t you ever wanna spend time with me, ? And I was like, I can’t even see past my own face right now. Like, I haven’t put on makeup since I, three months ago. Like I’m working. I was, I was life coaching, but I was life coaching. Women that are going through quarter life crisis.

So I was able to put on my hat for that, but then I was exhausted all other times. I was like, I, I, the, I, I was like, I can’t show up for time with you right now. What I need right now is a little bit of space for myself. Like I was, I noticed like this is all again, in retrospect, I would go out. like to say, the supermarket or something.

And I’d come back and I’d sit in my car and if my daughter was asleep, I would just like read a book and I’d stay around the other, around the block. But it was like, this is what, it’s the only time I could have space to breathe. And then, and it just, it got worse and worse and worse. And eventually I was like, like it was so many of those moments of like, I’m gonna show up for you and I’m gonna be there for you.

And then within like a second it was like, so when are you gonna do your fair share of parenting today? And I would be, I’d. , every single day like that, she’s been home with me. Like, yeah,

Raven: Wait a second. Share about parenting. I’ve been the only one waking up in the middle of the night

Jessica: well, he also worked like he worked, 10 hour shifts, five days a week, and he had to drive there and back. So I was doing the fair share of parenting every day, and, and so eventually, like I left and, but. co-parenting with the toxic person was really challenging. Like a lot of things that were happening weren’t making sense.

And I found like on the Instagram handle, understanding the narc and then started making sense and that was the only profile that was making sense to my situation. But at that point I didn’t even know it was that this was narcissist. No, I, I didn’t know it was narcissistic abuse.

Raven: Yeah.

Jessica: I take a long time off from dating in between probably two years.

I didn’t even think about a dating app, and then I started to date after a lot of friends were pushing me and I did. I, I was feeling ready, like I was like, I’m starting to feel ready to try, but I don’t really want to, because I was so afraid. And then I started to date again and I had like three boyfriends that were like short-lived.

of a lot of reasons. And then I get into this relationship with somebody who I now see completely love bomb me at the beginning. But he’s like very understanding. He’s very suave. We like connect right away. He invites me to meet and his family early. He is, he, he’s on the first date. He said, I don’t really process my emotions.

I just like shove them down and they go away. And I remember sitting there going, what? like. And then I was like, I’m gonna push that in my head and then like

Raven: Oh, all the red flags are like,

Jessica: Yeah.

Raven: did I ignore them?

Jessica: exactly. Exactly. I mean, and now looking back, but like that actually that, that relationship was very emotionally abusive and getting out of it was extremely toxic and it was really hard to heal from because I was also co-parenting with this other, or

Raven: Hmm. Right. You’ve got two of them in your life

Jessica: Yeah.

Raven: Yeah. I wanna point out that the narcissist will say things in arrogance and joke. Like, oh, I was just joking. But they’ll, they’ll say some really truthful things that reveal their true character. So never, I would say when anyone’s joking, like, that’s the truth.

Like

Jessica: totally.

Raven: evaluate what they say, everything they say is the truth. That sounds off. You’re like, Aw, that’s so funny. Joke, not funny. Like just

Jessica: Yeah. Like there’s a lot of times looking back at the beginning that I wish I was. Okay. Like internal filing cabinet. But I was actually just really happy to connect with somebody cuz I, the other, the other guys were a little immature and this guy wasn’t, 

Raven: Mm-hmm. 

Jessica: but as time went on and I started to see the threads together, because you can’t have this other marriage, this experience, and then have this one.

And like I had been married, I, I coach a lot of people on relationships at this point. I was coaching people on toxic relationships and he would tell me that I don’t know how to. and I’d be like, I communicate all day like, and no one in my life feels that way about me, like the people that know me. And so getting out of that relationship took a long time and it was very difficult.

I definitely was in that self blame game that I talked about earlier of like, it must be me. I must be crazy. And then, that actually like by, but that point I had so much more knowledge because then I was like, okay, this is a pattern. I’ve seen this pattern and now it’s time for me to learn more about this pattern.

It’s exactly what my stepfather was like too. And so I put myself in the knowledge and then entered ca Caroline Straton’s tr trauma informed narcissistic abuse coaching program that was designed. educate you on how to coach people on who are going through narcissistic abuse through a trauma informed lens.

And so that opened up like my whole world and I, cause I was, because I was so obsessed with it when I was learning about it that I was like, I want to keep doing this and this is the work that I wanna do and I just wanna help. Former me is like, if I had somebody when I was married, say this is what’s going on.

Like and here are the signs, like healthy relationships will not leave you. Driving around the block and parking, listening to an audiobook, just because that’s the only time you’re gonna get peace. , if somebody had said , that’s a, that is not good, , then , my ears would’ve perked up a bit because , I know what abuse is.

I went through it. And so when I started noticing the threads, but having such a strong trauma bond and not feeling like I could leave, I’d put myself so far deep into , the knowledge of it. I’m currently in Tina Swift’s, high conflict divorce program, which is in eight weeks. Well, I have four, four left, but that will certify me to help with former MES in the family court system because, yeah, but I just.

Yeah. I don’t know. That’s the way I think about, it’s like the reason I’m here is because I know how hard it is. So when a client comes and says like, I feel like I’m backtracking, or I just, I sent him a text or like, I just don’t understand. It’s like, yeah, I have said all those things, so I can be with them in the fire as well.

Raven: and Yeah. And then you can reassure them that they don’t need to get closure, like they can get closure other ways. They don’t need to communicate and open up that door and. all the things that just kind of keep you vulnerable to being Hoovered back in or abused again.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah.

Raven: So all of us are listening and we’re so intrigued and, and really sorry that you had to go through that, but I know they relate because usually it’s not just one relationship that we experience, it’s it’s multiple and it’s a pattern.

Narcissists have many shapes and forms. Like you said, that other one was more covert and emotional and the, the first one was, pretty overt and immature. So how does someone listening, like a sensitive person, how do they break up consciously with this person they feel stuck with?

Jessica: I think that the first step is the education, because that’s going to give you the confidence that you’re not crazy. I, I definitely feel like I am. , like a highly sensitive person, as defined like, I forgot the name of the author, but, I definitely am on the sensitive side and, and. . I think that that actually leads me to draw inward or into self blame a lot.

So instead of thinking that this is a pattern, this is an issue. If someone tells me that I am awful, I’m gonna believe that I’m awful until and now that that muscle is much stronger. But especially then when somebody says like, this is what you’re doing and it’s hurting me, I’m so empathetic that I’m just like, oh my God, what am I doing?

Oh my God, I don’t wanna hurt. , I, my daughter’s six now, and if she says like any, like, I mean, of course she’s gonna be like, mommy’s mean if I don’t give her like a cookie. But like, there are times where she say like, you promise and you hurt my feelings. And I just, like, my guts are ripped out.

You know? And I think that when we’re going in this, like nothing is ever, narcist will never take accountability. So the, I think the education is important to help you ungass light yourself. , getting yourself to this place of leaving. I know that for me, I needed to educate myself about what was happening.

So I, I knew every term that, when I started to see what was happening, I knew what Gray Rock was, I knew what boundaries were, and I was failing at them for a while. And then I started to see, okay, I need to pull my, I need to create, . That’s the first thing I need to do because then I can think for myself.

Because when you’re in this cycle, you’re not thinking clearly, like you’re probably most likely in your trauma response brain. You’re not in the rational thinking because you’re so dysregulated. Looking back, me sitting in my car was my way to regulate myself. , and I didn’t know that then.

I had no idea, I didn’t know that until last week when I was reading something and I may, I connected that. But, so we need to have some space. We need to regulate ourselves. And then I think beginning to set boundaries on what you accept and don’t accept anymore. And my formula for boundaries is that if you don’t remove yourself from the harm, you don’t have a boundary.

So for example, if you say, don’t yell at me, and they. and you, it’s like, well, don’t yell at me, and then they yell again. If you don’t leave, or if you don’t have a boundary of like, I’m leaving the room, I’m leaving the house, I’m going to my mom’s house, I’m staying at this hotel. I mean, it’s different for everybody in every circumstance, but that’s something that I think like.

I’m using yelling, but we can do that for anything. If you watch the camera, if I find out that you were watching the cameras when I was home, I’m unplugging the cameras like you need to remove the harm. And then, by, by the time you’re getting to that point, , you’re most likely preparing to leave.

And so I would figure out money. If you’re married, I’d go have a consult with a lawyer, and figure out what you need to do to protect yourself, what documentation you need to be taking, understanding custody, if you have a kid and what that looks like. I would, and I would just start really noting down what’s happening so that when you have that cognitive dissonance come in when you leave or when you’re trying to leave, and you’re like, but they’re gonna be great, but they’re gonna change.

have a list of what has actually happened, because those are just words. They’re just words. They’re not actions. And it takes so much for an abuser to change. Like it, like they literally have to change the way that they think. And if you think about how hard it is for you to change how you think, imagine what you’re gonna think about, like how, how hard it’ll be for them.

Like.

Raven: Yeah. And there has to be motivation for them to change in the first place. And and that’s not really why you’re leaving. You’re leaving for your safety. You’re leaving because you are worth more, you were leaving for, let’s say your children’s safety. And that’s just like an extra, extra effect.

Like as a sensitive, you’re like, oh, what I, I don’t want them to be lost. Be an agony that I’ve left. You think about them as a little child, I’m gonna trigger their abandonment issue. I, I would just say that that’s their problem. That’s not a your problem, that’s their journey. If they want to get help, they will get help.

That’s not your job to do.

Jessica: Yeah. I was afraid that my ex was gonna go right back to alcohol. That made me stay for probably six months longer than I wanted to. I was like convinced and then I just, I was like, you know what? I’ve told everybody. I’ve told his family, I told, countless people that I didn’t wanna do this anymore.

I’m one panic attack away from probably like pulling my hair out. I am, I’m done.

Raven: Yeah.

Jessica: And his family can be there for. if he needs it, you know? And if he’s sober, he can see my kid. He can see our kid. That’s how, that’s how I was thinking about it. Like, I’m not gonna ever take my child away, away. But his sobriety is on him as it’s always been.

Raven: Yeah, absolutely. And especially when you have children in the mix, you have to think of their safety first. Not if this person is, they’re an adult, even though they’re acting like a child, they are still an adult and they need to grow up and own their stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, I love all those tips.

I think they’re really important. Identifying, being aware. I, and I also love, like getting a plan together. Oh, I love, I’m a planner, so you always have, getting your plan together. Because if, especially if you have custody, you may think, oh, it’ll be fine. Like, we won’t ever end up in court. Like never think that that will, that can always happen.

So make

Jessica: You will, and you probably always will end up in court. So document. Cause you’ll. And on one hangup that comes up a lot is finance. Like people will say like, well, I don’t have money or, or this or that. I’ll say, I’ll say like, find ways to make money. Let’s, like, we can either find ways to make money that there’s, there’s a lot of ways we can do that.

Or you could start getting like do, if you got donations from people in your life and they just spend mode it to you, like there’s a lot of creative ways we can do it just to get you out to a safer. And then we’re, we can work on the money thing, but don’t, I always say like, don’t let money be the hangup, but I also never put myself in a position where money would be my hangup.

And that does, I think, come up from my upbringing of having to be like in survival mode. I never. relied on him for money. I, in fact made more money than he did, but it was just important for me, and it still is, like I have money and even for my daughter, like she, I donate to an account every week so that if she ever is in a tough position or any position, she has this little, pile of money that she will protect her.

And I think that’s just always been my mindset. And so when I have a client and say they’re in the middle of the relationship and they don’t know what they wanna do, . That is something I advocate for a lot, is like, I really think you should find ways to make your own money. Even if it is just waitressing two nights a week or something like that.

Just just start putting it away and have your own sense of security.

Raven: Always, always. I remember my mom always telling me that as a child and I was like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Cuz I was always taken care of. And then when you find yourself in that situation,

Jessica: Yeah.

Raven: where I was the same I had, I had a corporate job, so I had money. I had no problem leaving with the financial, but there’s a story that was watching, actually a documentary on Netflix, I think it was called Coming Home, and it was about homelessness on the west coast and I live on the west coast.

I was like, Ooh, intrigued. But it was a story. I mean, and this could happen to anyone. It is a horrific story, but it is this woman who her ex banged in the. Pistol whipped her and raped her, and she was reliant on him for money. She didn’t have her own job. She had two other kids. He got her pregnant and she was, she ended up homeless, like having to go to a shelter and.

It was just awful to hear her story. And it wasn’t like a nice shelter. It was just like mats on the floor in a gymnasium and they booted them out at like 6:30 AM and so she had to wander the streets and wait for the library to open. So she knew her kids could go into the library and be safe, and these things can happen.

So it’s always important to make sure you have a financial plan, even if you’re in the beginning stages, if you’re single, if. Whatever stage you are. Yeah, you’re right that having that financial is so important. So I love your ideas too cuz some people get stuck on like, oh well I don’t have qualifications or I don’t know what kind of job to get.

Or you have little ones and I can’t get a full-time job cause I have to pay for daycare. So I love your creative ideas about, bring drumming up some money to get you.

Jessica: Yeah, and I, I forgot where I saw it posted, but this was online somewhere. And it was just, it was like, I, I’m pretty sure it was a YouTube video and it was like, there are 10 jobs that you can do from your home to start making money. And it was like little, like, little actual, like, and they were actual jobs.

Like, it was like, you can do data entry and it’s $10 an hour, or whatever it is. And I, I just think that’s so, but it’s just so important to know that those are out there. And you can give it a, and you can give it a shot. Especially now post Covid, you can do a lot of things remotely.

Raven: Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

Jessica: Yeah,

Raven: So what is the number one advice that you wish for our empaths to hear when you are at your lowest?

Jessica: I think it is to remember like, . Remember who you were before all of this. I always say that when I’m at my lowest, I always end up going back to the same person I. was before, like I have always been intrigued by like spirit, like spirituality and I believe in like crystals, when I have like these intention setting candles and I like to meditate, when I sage my house constantly, like that’s really who I am at my core.

I’m also a learner and, very active in these other things, but,

Raven: Mm.

Jessica: Some, I think that in my lowest moments I would forget that and I would think it doesn’t work or I think it doesn’t matter, but like, or like a, even like terra cards or things like that, like those little pieces of me, I l. or they’ve always been there.

I’m about to be 36. I since I’ve been 14, these have all been parts of my life and I just think we’re just going back to some of those roots. Even if it is as simple as like going to the crystal store and picking out a crystal that really like, helps you feel calm or that you really like or is really beautiful, just remembering who that person was.

And you might even jot down a few notes about her because I think it can feel like when you’re in that panic attack or. , that like, that really dark cycle that this is who I am now, this is who this person created. And that’s not true. And I’ve watched that, I’ve watched that person come back and like, you can be that person you were before or you could be a new person if you want to be.

Like, you get to decide. Like I definitely am a new person, but I have a lot of elements of who I used to be, before. But I’ve taken on new ones, like I’m definitely more bolder. Like I have a giant mouth, which I’ve always had , but I’m from New York, so it’s like I’m very loud. But like I’ve also, there’s other parts of me that I’ve taken.

I’ve always been so comfortable being alone. Like I, that’s my favorite space. And I think remembering those parts, and even if they’re only coming up in like little tidbits, you could. Capture them at times and just remember that she didn’t go away. She’s just tired right now. Yeah.

Raven: beautiful. Thank you for that. It’s so empowering. Absolutely. So share with us, your work at, you already sh shared a bit about how you have certifications and if you have anything to share with our audience. Anything free.

Jessica: Yeah, so I, I won’t touch on the certifications just cuz I went on them, but my website is emotional abuse coach.com. I work with mostly women, in healing from, narcissistic and emotionally abusive relationships. I might mainly work one-on-one with people, but I do have one group option right now, but the majority of my work is and has been one-on-one, and it’s highly personalized to your situation.

Once I’m done with this divorce coaching certification, I’ll probably do some consults or offer consult like one-offs on my website for specifically if you’re going through a divorce with a toxic, highly toxic person. I have a podcast called the Relationship Recovery Podcast, where I do interview guests, but I also do episodes on different topics.

Usually I form an episode based on the topic that’s coming up most in my session. So current. The one that comes out tomorrow is about, signs of trauma bonds and how to know that you’re in one. There is. So, like I said before, in leaving a narcissist about setting boundaries is the most, IM one of the most important things to be able to set, create that space.

And so I created a series of canned responses to use if to diffuse. conflict and communication, and that’s a freebie that’s on my website. You just go and put your email and you get the download. It’s A P D F, but I think it’s really useful for just beginning to stop, like to create that space, but to have some words to use that don’t allow them that, that just don’t continue into that argument.

Like they’re not feeling based . They are, they’re boundary.

Raven: Ooh, those are good. I know we’re always looking for good tools, so that where can we, where can we get that?

Jessica: emo@emotionalabusecoach.com. There’ll be a little popup that comes up.

Raven: Okay, perfect. Yes, we need all those phrases, so go grab those phrases, you guys. I mean, I think what we even need them in just our everyday situations, , not just with narcissists.

Jessica: Yeah, totally.

Raven: this is so good.

Oh, thank you so much, Jessica. This has been amazing. I know breaking up with the narcissist is so difficult, so complex, and usually on average it takes seven times. Am I right?

Jessica: Yeah.

Raven: times it took me

Jessica: yeah.

Raven: Yeah. Okay. These are all really beautiful tools and I really appreciate the tips. Thank you for being here.

Jessica: thank you so much for having.

Good stuff. I’m so grateful to have Jessica on the show. And I hope that you learn something and enjoy the show as well. We learned about the attachment styles of narcissist abuse. We learned about some of the signs that you’re not in a healthy relationship. We learned some tips on how to break up with a narcissist and so much more. 

Raven: Join our empath community who are healing, gaining clarity, and regaining their authentic power back and receive weekly inspiration and strategies straight to your inbox to heal from narcissistic abuse and rewrite your story knowing your unique human design energy blueprint. The link to sign up to the newsletter is in the show notes.

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I know if you’re listening to this, you don’t have to imagine coming to the realization that the person you are married to is neither capable or has a desire to love you. This is why you found me. I remember though, when I left my narcissist that I, I felt so lost and alone, and at the same time, very empowered.

It’s really a matter of who you surround yourself, and we are not meant to go through these extreme hard times. We are meant to heal in community, in ritual, and in circles to have people pull us out of the quicksand that we’re stuck in. If you are ready to dive into discovering your authentic self through human design and heal in community through education and support in a safe group coaching environment, And it’s time for you to join the Empath Healing Membership.

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Co-dependent to rockstar Warrior, then dive into the membership today. It will rock your world and bring new light. The fog the narcissist has placed over you. I’m so excited to see you subscribe and in the heart-centered empath healing community as a sampler. Hop into the Free Empath healing support Facebook community, and join the discussion on this episode’s topic today and look out for the live q and a events there every Friday.

Click the link in the show notes. I’m so grateful for you listening. Finding the show and sharing it with your friends. It would give a great boost in the heart center to algorithm to rate and review this podcast. If you are enjoying it, take a screenshot, share it on your socials, share it in a text message to a friend that you know right now needs to be pulled out of the quicksand.

And remember, always keep your unique light shining.

Losing time, I’ll fade in fast. I just wanna make it last. Try to let go of the fast. I close my eyes. Embrace the blast. Sleepless nights and headache stack restlessness to hell and back. What’s my purpose, but do I grab a slippery resu surface, a heart attack, and sometimes you just gotta something that’ll give you relief.

What we’re broken. It’s tragic. We’re not all elastic, but maybe there’s magic. Believe you could.