How to identify a Narcissist when dating is they 1.play the victim, and 2. constantly have the same sob story. 3. They don’t take responsibility. 4.They are control freaks. 5.They have a series of bad relationships
“Pity is not love, it’s charity.” – Caroline”
– Caroline Middelsdorf, Psychologist
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Red Flags to Run when Dating
Today I share a clip from a conversation I had with Caroline Middelsdorf and Paxton on Narc Abuse TV YouTube channel about Red Flags in a date from the article linked below.
Here are some key moments:
- They play the victim with a constant sob story.
- They deliver empty promises
- They don’t take responsibility
- They are control freaks –
- A series of bad relationships with ALL opposite sex. : Look at how they treat their Mother. – Raven
cnt. from Part one…
I just gotta put this up. You have another one here agreeing with you.
cnt. from previous episode
1. They deliver empty promises
[00:28:30] Caroline: Mm-hmm the thing is also that. Uh, a lot of times you also, when you have these conversations, like for example, you had, with your partner, then a lot of times you get also empty promises. So there’s a lot of talk and they then also, if, if, because eventually you get, you hit also a point of, of frustration, right?
[00:29:00] So that you also get mad or you, you maybe will on, I end the relationship, but that’s the point where they, they, they hold sort of like you back, they kind of lure you in again, they give you the, all the promises in the world. They tell you I’m gonna change. I’m gonna do everything it can be from, I’m go to therapy, if it’s really serious stuff or to, um, I’m gonna honey for you, I’ll do everyth it, you know, mm-hmm but then [00:30:00] get then nearest important part, make a note.
Write these things down that he had said on the date, to show proof for when they deny they said that in the next argument.
Caroline middelsford
[00:29:30] I wish I had, because it it’s so interesting. Write these things down that he had said on the date, or on the day mm-hmm because eventually a month, six months, a year later down the line, he never said that apparently in another argument. Oh yeah. Or he will never follow up on the things he said. So it’s always empty words and no action.
[00:30:26] It’s just every time, the same thing happening all over. So that’s, that’s, that’s practical advice here. Make notes of things that you’ve said, or he had said, or yet you guys agreed on and then you have reference points.
[00:30:39] Paxton: I love that. Speaking, speaking of reference point, let’s go back to our article that we’re referencing here from the mind, the minds journal.com.
[00:30:48] This is, uh, great information that you ladies are laying out. Uh, again, the audience that is watching these shows from what were being informed, the analytics is showing us is [00:31:00] predominantly millennials, gen X and gen Zs. A lot of individuals who are just now stepping into the mental health field. And relationships and recovery.
[00:31:08] So I appreciate, uh, everything that’s been said so far. And thank you so much, uh, to, uh, Dooby as well as Brien, uh, for being here and participating, uh, here goes a picture now in the article, uh, that Falcon writes here, uh, he highlighted the fact that the, well, sometimes there’s never ending so stories, it’s a red flag, one of the 16, sometimes an individual, a man.
2. They play the victim with a perpetual sob story
[00:31:41] We also can find this in a female as well. He does allude to that at some point in the article, but sometimes there’s a never ending sob story to pull you in any thoughts?
[00:31:52] Raven: Yeah, I would say this is definitely gender neutral just from my personal
[00:31:57] Paxton: experience. I didn’t say it. I tried to be very [00:32:00] diplomatic cuz I laid it out
[00:32:01] Raven: there, but I’m a woman.
[00:32:02] I will admit it. no, I. I think, and this was, this is the part where they play the victim to get everyone to be on their side. Have you ever watched that movie where, you know, this is the, the villain in the movie. Yeah. But they cry, they do this fake cry and they’re like, oh, you know, everyone’s against. Oh, you know, and inventing Anna, have you seen that?
[00:32:26] So she’s literally putting on a show. My dad won’t talk to me. He cut me off financially. Like this, this is their play. This is, yeah. That,
[00:32:37] Paxton: that was pretty good. That was pretty good. You could, it sound like her acting. Yeah. That’s pretty good. No, I’ve never seen it, but that was so pretty good. I was
[00:32:43] Raven: ready for the next time.
[00:32:44] Exactly what she said and no, until she’s getting her friend to front the credit card for this hotel room, cuz she has zero money and all this debt. And she has no father. He’s not an Aris billionaire . And so he’s like, so she’s like literally breaking down and [00:33:00] crying and it’s that’s, that’s her play. And so he’s, he fronted his credit card and on, she went like, she just did it over and over.
[00:33:07] So it’s the same sob story. It’s the same repeated cycle. And it gets old. If you are real to, and you don’t have empathy, but you, you have to balance your empathy cuz they play on the human empathy.
[00:33:25] Caroline: I had, first of all, told you nicely said very, very, even very nicely said for me when I wrote this, it read the article. First thing that popped into my head and it sounds like a little bit harsh, but pity not love it’s charity. That is my wait.
Pity is not love it’s charity.
Caroline middelsford
[00:33:41] Paxton: Say that again? That was good. Say it again.
[00:33:43] Caroline: Pity is not love it’s charity.
[00:33:46] Wow. And if someone sits in front of you. Pity-ing himself. First of all, I, I felt like it’s a it’s I feel like it’s a, it’s a lack of, of, of self worth sort of slash [00:34:00] low self-esteem. But also it is a lack of self reflecting mm-hmm um, because if you only pity yourself, then, then you lit you kind of also like point out that everyone else around you is, is making you miserable.
[00:34:13] But you have, you don’t own anything of,
[00:34:15] Paxton: part of this. No accountability. You’re not respect. No, I was gonna
3. They don’t take responsibility.
[00:34:18] Raven: say they don’t take responsibility. That’s what I was gonna say. Yeah.
[00:34:22] Caroline: But a lot of people fall for it because it’s like, it makes you also feel special. If someone, it, it feels like, oh, that person open up to me, that person is sharing the dog, see secrets or the dark sides of, of them.
[00:34:34] And it’s that makes you feel if you’re the other side, Feel like special because you feel like, wow, he shares this with me, so maybe I can help. So the helper syndrome jumps in and that makes a lot of women, especially, but also men, they like to be the savior, you know, the, the, the sort of like, I’m gonna be there, I’m gonna, you know, make your life perfect.
[00:34:53] So it’s like that, that is, that would put stimulates in. So it’s it’s but it is a red flag [00:35:00] pity. And like I said, didn’t before is not love. It’s just a charity that you give to someone to yeah. Watch out
[00:35:08] Paxton: that that’s a form of manipulation them doing that. Oh, um, I put it up on the screen. Uh, everybody, please give a wave.
[00:35:14] If you can, toward the screen to Dooby said, I’m sorry. I have to shoot for dinner. I’ll catch up after have a lovely day, evening and weekend. Uh, what I was gonna mention was thank you so much Doby for that. And there, uh, feel free to, of course, enjoy this as a replay, uh, on our narc abuse TV channel. Um, what I was gonna mention is.
[00:35:35] When it comes to a person, essentially manipulating a man, manipulating Raven, you said actress of the year award can go to some women, um, manipulating others, um, with needy stories, looking for pity, as you highlighted Caroline, what does that do for you when you’ve been in those situations and someone’s doing that and it’s a man and that red flag [00:36:00] pops up.
[00:36:03] Raven: Oh, you mean a red flag pops up? Cause for me, I would like lean in and be like, oh my gosh, men don’t usually cry. Men. Don’t usually like have sob stories. So this must be really like important but then it kept repeating. That’s
[00:36:17] Paxton: so nice at the same time. Oh, that’s just, I can’t believe you. In other words, you’re not a man.
[00:36:23] What’s your problem like that?
[00:36:29] Caroline: But to be honest, I would, it would be the same. I, well, obviously in the past now I would be like, just, okay, thank you.
[00:36:38] Paxton: this is not American idol. This is not the voice I don’t need. I’m not voting for you.
[00:36:43] Caroline: No, you know, it in, in, in, in women’s nature, I think also a little bit, but some people are more prompt. I mean, that’s why, for example, a psychologist, I love hearing, you know, people how they feel and, and, and [00:37:00] fixing or helping in all of those helper syndrome things.
[00:37:02] But yeah, but that, that was in the past, after my experience now I would be like listening, but then I would know that’s not for me because then people could, you know, go to therapy.
[00:37:14] Paxton: Okay. Yeah. So, um, when it comes to a relationship with a man, here’s a side question. When it comes to a relationship with a man that you have experienced.
Have you experienced any one of these red flags so far mentioned? or all of the above? comment below.
[00:37:28] Just what we’ve talked about so far not, we’re about to talk about anything else, but what we’ve talked about so far, have you experienced any one of those combination there of or all of the above
[00:37:42] Caroline, Caroline? I
[00:37:50] just for you Carol, go ahead. What
[00:37:52] Caroline: all of the above, all of the above, I would say yeah, experienced mm-hmm
[00:37:58] Raven: yeah, I agree. [00:38:00] All of the above, all of it all in a different unique, you know, formula to that person, but all the above.
[00:38:06] Paxton: Okay. We’re gonna, we’re going to all the above feels really good, uh, of. That might be a question we could, you could do on your own, uh, pages or, uh, whatever it may be or Raven, your, your channel, your Raven, the Raven Scott show, uh, channel on YouTube, uh, to ask, uh, your subscribers or your followers, you know, have, which one of these have you personally experienced to let them just tell the story.
[00:38:31] You might be able to write a book of what you give back. So I don’t know. Oh, um, go ahead. You were gonna say something to Raven.
[00:38:38] Raven: No, I agree. I’ve been having a lot of feedback lately in people sharing stories and it kind of puts a little seed in my head. Like maybe I should collect these stories anonymously and put ’em together in a book.
4. They are control freaks
[00:38:52] Paxton: And maybe you should considering that, uh, there are a number of men, uh, who, [00:39:00] how can I put it? Let me put this back up here. Let me do that. Uh, who have several bad relationships because they’re control freaks. They take a, they take a magnifying glass to you. Uh, but yet they themselves have a pattern of bad relationships.
[00:39:17] Uh, the article does highlight that it talks about that. Uh, there is a, there is a thought here. Now we have to put up on the screen because I love hearing from our dear friend Marni, the beautiful Marni, uh, she puts, uh, Paxton, Raven and Caroline. Thanks for bringing awareness and having these conversations.
[00:39:37] Uh, thank you so much by the way, please. Everyone. You need to get Dr. Marni hill Forero books. Uh, so just, Hey, Google it. Uh, please do it. Uh, look, she got something else for you, everybody. Uh, ladies, please take a look at the screen. Uh, she says, yes. Write a [00:40:00] multi-author book, maybe an anthology about what we’re talking about right now.
[00:40:04] So you she’s got a point there. I’m sorry. Co coauthor a book. Uh, about, uh, your own experiences in opening up for other women to share their experience. That’s a pretty good point. Not that it would be the first one, but it would not be the Raven Caroline collection. You guys should start a collection of co-authored books.
[00:40:23] I just threw that out there. Thank you, Marni. Great idea. You were gonna say, I’m sorry. I was speaking. I lost you there in my ear.
[00:40:30] Raven: No, I’m just, I’m just running with inspiration. That was one of the points though about the bad relationships that I was gonna bring up, you know, that really hit me is because especially look at how he relates to his mother.
5. They hold an unhealthy relationship with their mother.
[00:40:47] Does he argue with her? Is he almost like, uh, uh, you know, a partner or a husband, like a caregiver to her? Is he overly codependent with his mother? [00:41:00] Um, and those are gonna be the signs that there’s some really unhealthy attachment there. And he’s gonna try and seek and morph your relationship into that unhealthy wow.
[00:41:11] You know, bond. And that’s what happened with me.
[00:41:13] Paxton: . So you were in a position where he tried to essentially make you mom so that he could stay in his role that he had
[00:41:23] Raven: physically and emotionally. Yeah. Yeah. His mom, he set me up to get like a makeover done by his mom and she made me look exactly like her it was really creepy.
[00:41:36] Paxton: That’s creepy.
[00:41:37] Raven: I had this a and the pictures. I’m like, what the heck was I thinking? Like, I was just trying to look pretty, but like, I look back at pictures. I swear to god. I look exactly like I shop where she did. My nails were, the, my makeup was the same. My hair was teased. Like the eighties, just like her, like the same creepy
[00:41:55] Paxton: I so wanna see the pictures go, Caroline, you.
[00:41:59] Caroline: I’m a little bit [00:42:00] shocked that me too, sorry. It’s like, oh God, but it, thanks for sharing this, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s really heavy,
[00:42:08] Paxton: you know, somebody’s living that right now though. Somebody, multiple women somewhere they’re living that experience right now and is considered normal for her to be that way.
[00:42:20] And she doesn’t know any different because this information, this education is not out there or she never had anybody ever tell her.
[00:42:29] Raven: Yeah. Yeah. I, I didn’t either. I looked to a book called how to wear high heels to try and like find guidance to be a woman, which didn’t really help me, but I’ve tried. I looked, no, that was, Great’s why I’m passionate to share what I’ve learned.
[00:42:45] Yeah.
“he always said, I only like women wearing high heels “
Caroline middlesdorf
[00:42:46] Caroline: Yeah. That makes me also think I had also one relationship with a very narcissistic guy and he always said, I only like women wearing high heels and I am already tall. I mean, you don’t see it, but um, when I wear heels, I [00:43:00] I’m like a giraffe. Um, but I ended up only wearing high heels because you would disregard, um, sneakers.
[00:43:08] You would look at me and be like, God, they’re ugly. You look like a man or you things like this. And then I would feel it like, sort of, not like a woman that you wanna be like, feel like you, obviously, your partner’s attracted. So you become like O see a pleaser. You’re like, right. Fair enough. I do it for him.
[00:43:24] But these are things that, or they would, he would refer back to his ex-girlfriend and be like, she had a good body. What, by the way, I pointed out on this several weeks, months later, he never been said, but this is what it is like, and it, it stay, it stays with you. These things stay with you. And you’re like, yeah.
[00:43:43] All right, I have to change. I have to do something. So it kind of, again, topic boundary crossing. You, you cross everything yourself that you, you stand for
[00:43:54] Raven: just for the other person. I would say, find a man, like, go on your first date with a guy, [00:44:00] completely like makeup list in your scrubs wash,
[00:44:10] Caroline: like tested. Unfortunately, that’s where I met to my narcissist being completely makeup list. That list because obviously then they are so good manipulators. Right. So he would pick up on it and just be like, you’re great person. Right. But then also change better. But
[00:44:34] When I met him cuz I was like granola girl and wore Birkenstock. And so he was like, oh my gosh. You’re and he said that to me in the end, he’s like, I chose you. It’s in my book for this very exact reason. I chose you because you’re a blank canvas. I could shift. I could sheep shift you into anything I wanted.
[00:44:52] Wow. And that, oh, that’s awful. Was creepy. That was the eye opening. Like I’m not staying here anymore moment. [00:45:00]
Raven Scott
[00:44:29] Raven: that’s true. That is mine told me a blank canvas because obviously I had no makeup too.
[00:44:34] When I met him cuz I was like granola girl and wore Birkenstock. And so he was like, oh my gosh. You’re and he said that to me in the end, he’s like, I chose you. It’s in my book for this very exact reason. I chose you because you’re a blank canvas. I could shift. I could sheep shift you into anything I wanted.
[00:44:52] Wow. And that, oh, that’s awful. Was creepy. That was the eye opening. Like I’m not staying here anymore moment. [00:45:00]
[00:45:00] Paxton: That’s like Hitler. Like, uh, Brian has something for us. You guys are giving me I’m creep. I’m getting creeped out over here. Some of the stuff you’re telling me, I moon make my daughter stay. My, my two daughters stay in the house all the time.
[00:45:11] Now, nothing safe. Uh, Brian says that works both ways. My female narcissist, uh, couldn’t stand your mother. Uh, believe it or not. Uh, I feel like I was her mother. Uh, so everyone has a, a very unique and different experience. But the theme of the experience, the pattern of behavior is the same. You’re not good enough.
[00:45:36] And I need to change you. And, uh, that just doesn’t work in the long run based upon what you’re saying.
The Dalai Lama says that the ultimate showcase for a child learning compassion and empathy is from the mother
Raven Scott
[00:45:44] Raven: yeah. You know, Brian, it’s, it’s a mother thing. The Dalai Lama says that the ultimate showcase for a child learning compassion and empathy is from the mother. So if there’s narcissism already in the mother, [00:46:00] if there’s flaws, if she’s wounded and she doesn’t love herself, it gets passed on.
[00:46:05] And how she relates and loves and shows compassion to her children. That’s, that’s where that, that hiccup comes in. So I always look at what the relationship is with her mother.
[00:46:18] Paxton: There’s some, uh, information there on the screen as well. Feel free to, to address that if you like from, uh, our friend Dr. Marni hill.
[00:46:26] Raven: Yeah. What is it? What high heels it’s such a dominant like male authoritarian, like, I guess
[00:46:31] Caroline: really is it’s really, it’s fascinating
[00:46:35] Paxton: men, high heels in the, in the first place, considering that I’m a man, I, I can easily address that. It, uh, no, no. I can easily address that. It’s, uh, it would take, uh, the entire show, uh, for me to say it in a very diplomatic way, but I’ll, I’ll cut to the chase.
[00:46:53] Here we go. Men find certain aspects of the female [00:47:00] body attractive
[00:47:04] yeah. Things, things were made to accentuate those heels being one of the ones that accentuate predominantly the feet, the ankle and the calf. Yeah. And it, and it moves from there. So, uh, some men have not grown to appreciate a woman for what’s at the top of her body, her brain, her brain. Uh, so therefore they gravitate to the very, as it were superficial fleshly aspects of the woman.
[00:47:30] Instead of who she is. So, uh, when, when it comes to high heels, that’s as close as I can really get to, if not, it’ll take away from everything we’re talking about here. And, uh, we, you said 50 minutes. Yeah. But, uh, any man it’s objectifying, right?
[00:47:44] Raven: Say it again. It’s object.
Because they immediately will compare [00:48:00] you to another woman. So they’re objectifying that
Paxton
[00:47:45] Paxton: Oh, it’s objectify a certain aspect of the human body.
[00:47:50] Not the, yeah, not the person. So yes. In, in essence, the answer is yes, but it’s, it’s, it’s objectifying, not the total woman. Why? Because they immediately will compare [00:48:00] you to another woman. So they’re objectifying that. And, and actually here it goes. Cause see, I told you we could end up going, but uh, my friend Marni is laying it out.
[00:48:09] I’m just trying to stutter my way through this, cuz we’re gonna go in a whole nother direction that I love to talk about. And I’m gonna have upcoming shows on pornography addiction. I get it. Yeah. If there was, but before there was pornography. It still is an aspect of shallow men. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t make you look well or is a compliment to you.
[00:48:31] It may compliment you and highlight certain aspects. What clothes do they either hide or highlight? They do one of the two. They, you know, they bring attention to and highlight something or they hide something that you don’t wanna bring attention to. That’s what clothes to do. But when a, when a man or a woman, a woman may feel that way, when it comes to, you know, a man having an open shirt all the time, there’s a lot of things that come into play.
[00:48:52] So when we’re talking about high heels, listen, we are gonna have to do a show on it. Now see you guys. We don’t start something cuz [00:49:00] I’ll I’ll finish you. We’ll go ahead and have a show on this because this aspect of the 16 flags that were talked about by Falcon, um, in his article, in the mines journal, uh, mines journal.com, uh, he has to be given credit cuz he highlights some things that like we’re, we’ve been talking about.
[00:49:17] We haven’t even touched half of them yet. so yeah, this aspect of high heels and why that’s important and, and what a woman is wearing. I have to go back again to our friend, the doctor here, uh, she says her experience. My ex wanted me to wear specific clothing items. When you got a man that does that, there’s something wrong with him.
[00:49:42] That’s different than complimenting a woman and saying, you know what, when you wear that, you make that look good. That’s different. I can say that. Cause my father used to tell my mother that, and, and I was young. I go like, okay, that’s just weird what he just said, but my mother would be, I couldn’t see her for like two, [00:50:00] two weeks, cuz she’d be on cloud 17.
[00:50:02] You know? Like why is she like walking around? So stinking happy because she didn’t go pick something for him to just like, she began to recognize it added to he self-esteem and highlighted what she wanted to highlight about herself. So her dignity was able to stay in play. But when a man is taking clothing, and the only way you can have dignity is because you wear that clothing.
But when a man is taking clothing, and the only way you can have dignity is because you wear that clothing. That’s a pathetic man.
Paxton
[00:50:24] But if you wear sneakers, you’re less of a person. That’s a pathetic man. Cause I told you I don’t wanna get, I’m gonna know the soap box.. Okay. So anyway,
[00:50:31] Raven: seriously, I’m like, amen. Amen. Amen. So it’s just,
[00:50:35] Paxton: I’ve got daughters, I’ve got daughters. They, they get tired. They probably get, they, they don’t get tired, but they, you know, I get on my soapbox here in the house and stuff.
[00:27:04] And I’m so looking forward to connecting with you.
16 Men Share The Red Flags In A Man You Should Stay Away Fromhttps://themindsjournal.com/red-flags-raised-by-16-men-when-you-should-stay-away/
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“I salute the Divinity in you.”
– Indian brotherhood
Raven Scott is providing women, who are feeling lost and alone in their journey, a community to kick ass as we become empowered together while healing from childhood trauma, abusive relationships, or plain old life, and awaken to rewrite our karmic story. Through astrology, self care, human design, & intuition.
We are energetically clearing ancestral patterns one step at a time to find our power and potential through healing so you can live empowered the unique loved individual you desire to be. Topics covered: Self development, Human design, Astrology, tarot, meditative thoughts, intuitive message from spirit, and expert guests sharing different spiritual healing modalities.
Your host and Patreon Community mentor, Raven Scott, is a narcissitic abuse survivor, author of Empath and The Narcissist: A Healing Guide for People Pleasers. And also is a Certified Meditation Teacher. Join us on http://Patreon.com/soulcollective9